Alpha – Blood Talents

The best for last. Or, rather, the most complicated for last. View it how you will!

Reminder: Complete trees can be viewed here.

Talents removed:

  • Subversion
  • Dark Conviction
  • Mark of Blood
  • Bloody Vengeance
  • Sudden Doom
    • Moved to Unholy
  • Hysteria
  • Blood Gorged

Talents added:

  • Sanguine Fortitude – “While active, your Icebound Fortitude reduces damage taken by an additional 10/20/30% and costs 33/66/100% less runic power to activate.”
  • Hemorrhagic Fever – “Your Blood Boil has a 50/100% chance to afflict enemies with Hemorrhagic Fever, reducing their physical damage dealt by 10% for 30 sec.”
  • Crimson Scourge – “Increases the damage dealt by your Blood Boil by 15/30/45%.”
  • Blood Swarm – “When you Plague Strike a target that is already infected with your Blood Plague, there is a 20/40/60/80/100% chance that your next Blood Boil will consume no runes.”
  • Bone Shield – Same as present, simply taken from Unholy.
  • Blood-Caked Blade- Same as present, simply taken from Unholy.
  • Toughness – Same as present, simply taken from Frost.

Talents modified:

  • Might of Mograine now increases the damage dealt by your Blood Strike, Heart Strike, and Rune Strike abilities by 5/10/15/20/25%, instead of increasing the critical strike damage bonus of Blood Boil, Blood Strike, Heart Strike, and Death Strike.
  • Improved Death Strike is now a three point talent, instead of a two point talent. Effect per point (15% DS damage, 3% DS crit, 25% DS heal) remains unchanged.
  • Blood Worms now heal for one large amount at the end of their duration, instead of tiny amounts each hit. The heal affects you and nearby allies.
  • Veteran of the Third War no longer increases strength, but instead increases stamina by 4/7/10% (up from 1/2/3%). Expertise amount remains unchanged.
  • Improved Blood Presence now reduces the chance you will be critically hit by melee attacks is reduced by 3/6% in Blood Presence.
    • See this entry for information on the presence overhaul.
  • Heart Strike now has a base 100% weapon damage modifier (up from the current 50%) and strikes two nearby targets (up from the current 1).
  • Will of the Necropolis heavily redesigned, and reads as follows: When a damaging attack brings you below 30% of your maximum health, you generate a Blood Rune and the cooldown on your Rune Tap ability is refreshed, and all damage taken is reduced by 10/20/30% for 8 sec. This effect cannot occur more than once every 15 seconds.”
  • Dancing Rune Weapon now grants 20% parry while active, in addition to its current affect.
  • Vendetta moved up two tiers, increased to a three point talent.
  • Death Rune Mastery moved down four tiers.

For the time being, I am going to hold off on my commentary of all of this until the talent trees are viewable, as the linked site is currently down, and I know of no other public, permissible source of seeing the information. I don’t quite remember where each talent was, tier wise, and thus it would be hard/impossible to reflect on how the talents all interact with each other in reality, not to mention potential builds.

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34 Responses to Alpha – Blood Talents

  1. Roth says:

    Just a few minor number tweaks:

    Imp. Blood Presence is probably 3/6% reduced chance to be critically hit, like the Feral Druid talent Survival of the Fittest.

    Hemorrhagic Fever is likely a 10% reduction to physical damage.

    Will of the Necropolis is probably 10/20/30% reduced damage….9/18/27 seems kind of off.

  2. Insolence says:

    Will of the Necro will now probably make at least Rune Tap get into Cookie-Cutter Specs, I think probably the worse part of the changes is the 5 Tier Epidemic now, but wth, 30 second base duration on Diseases + 15 seconds? Or is it 30 seconds total WITH Talents?

    • Consider says:

      30 seconds base + 15 from talents. Which is kinda odd, considering the 1 minute cooldown of Outbreak, but whatever.

      I’m not sure if you saw the physical talent trees before the site broke, but the cookie-cutter build for tanking will almost certainly be 66/5/5, with Runic Empowerment from Frost and Epidemic from Unholy. With such a build you get every possible mitigation talent (minus Spell Deflection, which I personally find of questionable worth) and every threat talent in Blood (aside from stuff like Butchery, if you really consider that a threat talent, which I doubt many would) there is. So even if Epidemic isn’t quite as good then relative to how it is now, there’s really nothing I can see someone passing it up for.

      As always, it all comes down to opportunity cost, and that’s all but nonexistent for Epidemic in Cata.

      • Roth says:

        Agreed. Although Im wondering if theyre gonna do something with Butchery. As it stands…its completely worthless.

      • Rebellion says:

        Its not that odd to be honest. I doub they wanted Outbreak to replace IT/PS, its more like an emergancy button, when something like valkyrs spawn and you have to get to burst quickly.

        But what really bothers me is, that the blood looks already quite remodeled, so I guess we can say its one of the more final versions compared to frost and unholy. But even Blood has no room for fun talents, because its bursting with mitigation/threat talents. Ofc, we do have +5 talent points but still, its not like the whole mastery stuff makes sense (at least not the one they tried to sell us) when we have even less room for nice talents than before.

      • Insolence says:

        I did get achance to work with the Talents a bit on CataclysmWiki, and I did put a 66/5/5 Spec together after a bit of trying, but fisrt I got together a Spec that can get Unholy Frenzy (the new Hysteria) for people that would prefer extra Utility, and it would probably help any Fury Warrior considering their new 51 Point Talent if you’ve seen it yet.

        If that Spec doesn’t work out I indeed agree 66/5/5 will probably be the Cookie-Cutter, assuming the Talents won’t get any major changes before the Beta begins.

        I’m wondering why they had to move BCB to Blood instead of Frost though, fine it makes Sub-Spec Blood look nice, but uh… Vendetta? Erhm. They could have just moved it to Frost if they didn’t want 2 Auto-Attack talents under Unholy I think.

        Pity they also didn’t move AMZ any higher for a bit more Utility.

      • Insolence says:

        Back after 2 minutes because I thought of a new point – They’re adding way too many useful Talents if they want Masteries to stop at 51 Talents in a spec. What I mean – Masteries stop at 51 Talents. From reading comments and playing around with Talents all the useful Talents add up to around 60+ in the main Tree which is way over what the Masteries stop at meaning either Blizz raises the Masteries cap or spreads out the useful Talents a LOT more.

      • Communism says:

        Both Shadow and Blood have minimal desirable talents outside of their main trees. It’s a bit odd to look at, especially since Blood has nice low talents for the other two trees.

      • Insolence says:

        Exactly, so since they have so many goodies for each specific Tree in that Tree I believe they should raise the Mastery Cap to 61 Points instead of 51, spread out so that it will still end up the same way they end up now meaning 8% Damage Reduction etc etc etc, but just more spread out so people don’t feel like they shouldn’t be spending so many points in that tree.

  3. Clevinger says:

    A few points/questions.

    Will tanks take Epidemic or use Outbreak at all? If the threat buff to Icy Touch remains they might not be using Outbreak to apply diseases.

    What on earth is blood swarm all about? Why would you want to plague strike to get a blood boil? Surely it will always be better to use death strike (with DRM) and then use the death runes to blood boil.

    Can a tank spec ignore Icy talons? I’m not sure which classes are likely to bring the equivalent debuff now – frost dps will.

    Blood AOE threat looks pretty solid but harder work that currently as Morbity is not available. It’s helped by a 50% buff to blood boil plus an extra heart strike target. It looks like there will be three “rotations” for blood. One for single target, one for a low number of targets (less than 4?) and one for a lot of mobs. Where does Blood Swarm fit in though?

    • Consider says:

      Yes, tanks will take Epidemic (for lack of alternative talents, if nothing else) and use Outbreak regularly. The threat buff to IT appears to be gone.

      Imp IT can be ignored; Frost Fever reduces attack speed by 20% baseline now.

      Blood Swarm is odd, but it might be a play off Runic Empowerment (i.e, you Rune Strike, an Unholy rune is randomly brought up, so you have nothing to do but PS, letting you BB?). That’s my best/only guess!

      • Insolence says:

        The IT Threat Buff is gone? :O Damn I missed something….

        And yeah Imp. IT is more or less useless now, unless you want some extra IT Damage.

        Blood Swarm does look a bit weird, hopefully Beta Testing will clear it up a bit.

    • Jonneh says:

      >> What on earth is blood swarm all about? Why would you want to plague strike to get a blood boil? Surely it will always be better to use death strike (with DRM) and then use the death runes to blood boil.

      afaik all dots are now truely “rolling”. When you apply plague strike wth 1.5 secs left on blood plague, instead of going to 30 secs remaining it’ll be 31.5 secs remaining, and continue to tick down, without missing the tick via clipping.

      This means you’ll be able to PS/IT and use your “free” bloodboil to keep up the new demo shout debuff, which just reduces the physical damage dealt by the boss. This does all you debuffs once per rotation in a neat little package.

      Makes sense when you think about it that way.

    • Lasenka says:

      I’d see not taking Epidemic, actually. In the interest of a slightly “nicer” rotation, where you do an IT-PS-BB-HS-HS-DS (or something) every 30 seconds. As your diseases and Hemoragic fever would have the same duration, and this allows a PS-(free)BB.

      • Insolence says:

        I think Epidemic is the only way to make our Diseases last 30 seconds, meaning they’re 15 by default and with 5/5 Epidemic they’re 30 seconds.

      • Sag says:

        The notes that Consider has posted say 30 second base for Blood Plague and Frost Fever, up from 15 seconds.

  4. Mysiana says:

    I’m not sure I like the change to WotN; but to be fair, it’s current iteration is pretty OP. As for not having room for “fun” talents? I don’t know about you, but I am fairly psyched to have a real and robust tanking tree. We’re getting everything we loved from blood tanking PLUS increased AoE capabilities. “Shield block”, “demo shout”, “leader of the pack”, and another avoidance cooldown! Not to mention the increase to self-healing. DK tanks are shaping up to be pretty beefy.

    • Insolence says:

      If I remember GC from BLizzCon correctly they said they want Cookie-Cutter Specs to have 7-10 “Free Talents” for “Fun Talents”. I believed it would be impossible, and it seems it will be impossible, since peole will always aim for the best Talents to increase their Role even if its only by a tiny bit.

      I’m not sad we don’t have “fun talents” since our utility range is spreading quite widely.

    • Clevinger says:

      In evaluating the new WotN, you need to remember that health pools are meant to be much bigger in Cata with smaller heals/damage relative to the total health pool. Falling below 30% in WotlK means you are probably going to die unless you are healed before the next incoming strike. It shouldn’t be so serious in Cata. However, rune tap staying at 20% kind of argues against this.

      I agree that that the range of damage reduction cool downs (I count 4) looks like it will be very interesting to be a DK tank. Choosing which CD to glyph will be very interesting as well.

      • Insolence says:

        Assuming they leave the Glyphs as are (however unlikely that is!) I’d go with GoDS, GoVB and GoBS is what I’d say. GoVB is a must without a doubt being the best Tanking Cooldown. I can’t see them changing GoIBF since the cost comes free from Talents so I’m going with skip it, then GoBS for a bit of a longer Bone Shield duration unless Blizzard gives us another new good Glyph to go with.

        This is assuming they don’t implement any new Glyphs and don’t make any major changes to the current ones which I doubt they won’t do. Maybe with the IT Buff gone we’ll have to keep GoRS, maybe not due to Vigilance. Who knows.

        Path of the Titans may affect our Glyph choices as well, we only have a limited amount of information on that so far so we can’t really be sure.

      • Clevinger says:

        I was thinking more about switching glyphs on a boss by boss basis. GoVB is good on everything. GoBS for slow hitting bosses or when there is magical damage. GoDRM for fights with waves of adds if I understand the new parry mechanic properly and will help threat as well. GoDS gives mitigation and helps threat and GoRS will be the biggest threat increase.

        That’s 5 viable glyphs at the moment – the choice will depend on the fight and the tanks attitude.

      • Insolence says:

        I see your reasoning, however that could be quite expensive and Blizzard might not want to go down that path, especially beginning expansion where Glyphs will sell for insane amounts with prices being inflated like hell.

  5. Theldonn says:

    These are fairly disappointing as I thought Blizzard was trying to remove the “must have” talents and move towards more fun talents that generate changes in play style. I realize they are not done but even the new talents seem lack-luster (but some look great).

    They really need to rework Dancing Rune Weapon in the tanking tree :/

    I still think they need to attach an additional bonus to the Death Rune Mastery/Reaping talents.

  6. Communism says:

    Why would the damage reduction be tied to Blood Boil over Blood Plague?

  7. Caeden says:

    I’m really liking the direction of Blood right now. So many proactive damage reduction abilities and cooldowns make this one of the most interactive tank specs to play. Threat, to some extent, is fun, but the joy of tanking is having abilities to control your survival to some extent. Making those short cooldown brings skill into when and where you use the abilities during an encounter. Its a refreshing extension of what they tried to do in WOTLK. I do believe warriors, druids, and paladins need some bolster in this area.

    – I would imagine that glyphs will change, substantially.

    – Clearly, they envision blood tanks spamming more than heart strikes and occasional death strikes, which is great.

    – Blood Swarm is awkward – I presume its there to help with locking down adds, but it’d make more sense to be heart strike and death strike than plague strike. I know when tanking the Thorim arena as blood, I would use my death strikes to gen death runes to link blood boils together. Then again, with the changes of Scourge Strike to 1 rune and maybe later to Death Strike, could we be seeing Death runes go away, which would make this make a tiny more sense?

    – I actually expected more emphasis put on blood strike, but heart strike is still a straight up replacement for it. Given the number of mid-tree talents that buff it, I expected Blood Strike to be a part of Blood’s single target rotation.

    – I’m still concerned that we won’t have that “glue the mob to you initially” move like Shield Slam or the like with IT reverting back. Perhaps rune strike has changed to fill this role? If rune strike is an instant attack, is it going to be Blood’s RP dump?

    – Blood Boil got a buff, though not sure what the baseline spell is now like, but I’m still a bit concerned with the “ease” of Blood AE tanking with the movement of Morbidity deeper into unholy. Is DnD having a reduced cooldown? I seem to recall a leaked tooltip that showed it costing only a blood rune. Not sure if that was ever confirmed. (Maybe a non-issue with reduced emphasis on AE.)

    – Blood worms may be your free points if they end up underwhelming. I do like the push of DKs being the “self-healing” tank.

    • Insolence says:

      – So far the Rotation I’m assuming would be IT – PS – HS – HS – DS and with those, all Runes on Cooldown.

      – Blood Swarm is indeed awkward and seems pretty confusing to myself as well atm.

      – I don’t believe they want to change Blood’s main Strike to BS from HS so no use in putting in BS Talents anymore at all.

      – Rune Strike still costs 20 RP so it can’t be an opener. And yes it will be Tank’s RP dumper since it seems to be keeping it’s threat modifier. Maybe Vengeance will cover the “glue the mob to you initially” thing, and maybe Shield Slam is losing it’s Threat as well.

      – DnD doesn’t seem to be having a reduced Cooldown yet but yes it does seem to only cost 1 Blood Rune, although it seems pretty dumb considering they nerfed it’s damage to buff it’s Threat, why would they want it to be on the same cost as a BB I have no idea, Frost Rune cost would probably be better, not that frost would really need DnD with their uber HB anyway.

      Bloodworms don’t seem to be fitting in right now, least from what I put together. I pulled the following spec together: http://wiki.raevyn.net/files/talent/deathknight.html?tal=00553231505210333123331353100500000000000000000000000000005000000000000000000000000000 and I tried a 66/5/5 but I wasn’t sure what would be better without testing – BCB and Bloodworms (BCB has terrible Threat-Per-Point so was always skipped so far) BCB and SD, Bloodworms and SD or what. Maybe even Hemmorhagic Fever but so far it looks pretty situational since it procs from Blood Boil.

      • Lasenka says:

        Please tell me you aren’t planning on forgoing 10% mob damage reduction “because it procs from Blood Boil.”

        When you open with your diseases, just have your first blood rune post-diseases go to bloodboil. It’s on the same duration as diseases…

  8. Fahar says:

    Didn’t see anyone else bring it up, but Blizzard expect less AoE and more CC in Cata.
    Blood DK tanks might end up having a issue trying to accomplish that in this current build!
    Considering HS will be cleaving 2 additional target, up from 1 , and all the buffs to BB, what should we use when we have CCed targets around us? Blood Strike? It seems a bit odd to me!
    All those changes to provide us with a more fun and enjoyable play stile will be completely useless if we wont be able to use it in order to avoid CC breaking.

    • Insolence says:

      Well I’m pretty sure we won’t be CCing every single mob otherwise we’d probably be soloing stuff, and we probably wouldn’t even have enough CC abilities to do them all, so I don’t think HS’s cleave will be that much of an issue, more of a “sweet more AoE Threat” sort of thing, but if we do use HS instead of BB… Well lol why even have an AoE Rotation then? 😄

      • Fahar says:

        Gosh I might need to be more specific… lol
        In a raid environment Blizzard will expect, in Cataclysm, to see more CC pulls than AoE ones.I know that DK’s are not a CC class, but thanks for the reminder anyway.

      • Insolence says:

        Hungering Cold 😀

  9. Satyric says:

    After reading comments i had a feeling i’ve overlooked smthing in those talent changes and i checked everything twice but for me atm it looks… well pretty overpowered if not IMBA:
    4 CDs to use from 1 to 2 min
    WoTN with potential of 50% uptime for extra 30% dmg reduction, taking in account larger health pools and not-so-spammy healing (as they promise) i can c tank healer (in certain situations) intentionally let DK drop to 30% for buff proc.
    On top of that we get boost to self healing.

    Im a bit afraid blizzard overdone with blood specc and it looks like we may go back to 3.0/3.1 chaining survival cooldowns 24/7

    Ow ye, one more thing, just to clarify: Hemorrhagic Fever doesnt count as 3rd disease, right?:D

    • Insolence says:

      I don’t agree with the Tank Healer letting us drop to 30%, thats dangerous and unnecessary.

      WoTN will get nerfed and no I doubt we’ll end up as we were in 3.0.

      HMF is a 3rd disease.

      • Derah says:

        I have a question:

        Hemorrhage Fever counts as a new Disease? (ala cript fever/ebon plage) or just another debuff (ala unholy blight/frost vulnerability)

        because if it’s just a magic effect, then it’s an ok talent, wich helps alot, but if it’s a new disease THEN IT’S A FANTASTIC AMAZING OMGWTF BUFF.

        think about it, BS, HS, DS dealing more damage, and DS healing for more……….

        Anyone knows or suspects wich is true? disease or magic efect?

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