It’s True – It Hurts To Be Right!

As predicted, the information fansites were able to release at midnight were indeed about guild talents, archaeology, and Path of the Titans (among a couple other minor points of interest).

I’m off to sleep shortly, but below are some initial thoughts on the various topics covered. I would recommend reading the news at the linked site, or any of the others which have it printed in full (Mmo-champion, Wowhead, etcetera). There’s no need for me to reprint it all, of course.

Scrapping Path of the Titans = Good.

  • I never saw the point. Each class/spec/role was going to have a specific path they had to go down in order to maximize their damage/healing/tanking. What purpose would it serve?
  • Redundant and complicated. Normal glyphs, then ancient glyphs, the latter of which worked off of utterly different rules/mechanics than the first?
  • Balancing it would have been an absolute nightmare. A PotT glyph which would have been fine and dandy on one class could be ridiculous on another. Blizzard would have had to either make all of the glyphs bland enough that none were too noticeable for any one class, or we would have had to live with the balance implications of some specs getting these amazingly synergetic new abilities. Lose-lose situation.

Improving/extending the current glyph system = Good.

  • There are very, very few minor glyphs at the moment (we, as Death Knights, have a total of 6). That’s not much to choose from, when we have three slots available.  A look over at the system almost certainly means improvement/additions.
  • Minor glyph were suppose to be flavor-oriented and “fun”, but most haven’t really lived up to that initial claim. Leaving minor glyphs as is (convenience oriented type things), and then giving “fun” glyphs there own category is most welcome.
    • $5 there’s a medium glyph to change how our ghoul looks.
  • Majors vary wildly in effectiveness. Some are great. Some are kinda iffy. Giving them a second look through such that all specs have awesome choices available is good.
  • Being able to swap glyphs without having to carry stacks around? Absolutely awesome. No explanation needed, really.

Scrapping guild talents = Good.

  • Remember this post from a month ago? That should sum up my feelings on the subject nicely!

Guild leveling/rewards/reputation/achievements/UI = Good.

  • As it is now, being in a guild doesn’t do much. A guild bank, tabard, and title under your name are about it. The fact is, you can have forums/website, can share a chat channel, and can group with anyone. Yes, being in a guild is convenient and such, but that’s about it. There should be more to it than simple convenience. It should be an integral aspect of the a MMORPG, emphasis intentional. I’ll write more on all of this later, but suffice is to say guilds should be more than a simple social experience, but a playing one as well.

Raid Info = Good.

  • Being able to downshift a raid is nice, especially if your suffering attendence issues. Have 30 on Tuesday? Do a 25 man. Come Monday, down to only 20? Downshift to two 10s so you can finish at least something.
  • Raid ID improvements were inevitable, and the only reason they’ve waited so long was likely due to technical limitations. Most welcome.
  • Algalon-style bosses? Very cool, and nice to know Blizzard isn’t forgetting the more ‘hardcore’.
  • 50% more loot/player in 25 mans? Interesting. That means if a 10 man boss drops 2 pieces of loot – 0.2/person – than a 25 man boss should drop 7.5 pieces of loot – 0.3/person. That’s a larger ratio than most expected. I’m still not convinced that more loot is all it will take to keep people doing 25 mans, if difficulty is equalized.
  • Equal difficulty between 10s and 25s. Yes. Necessary for 10s to be a viable option, but may kill 25 man raiding. Time will tell.

Grim Batol = Mixed.

  • Naxxramas10/25 difficulty? God no! Entry level raiding is one thing, but Naxx10/25 was a bit too easy, honestly. Hard modes might be enough to make the difference this time around. We’ll see.

PvP = Indifferent.

  • It’s no secret I’m not big on PvP. Rated battlegrounds sound fun and all, but whatever – just something to do when bored, in my eyes.

Archaelogy = Mixed.

  • Little known secret: I love lore. I truly do. More of that in game for those of us interested is always good.
  • It sounds rather boring in use. What do you do, dig in the dirt? Essentially fishing on land? Rather unexciting.

Like I said, just my first impression of it all, but generally speaking, I think Blizzard is making some excellent choices (for the most part), and Cataclysm is shaping up to be the best expansion yet. I’m sure many will lament the loss of Path of the Titans and Guild Talents but, honestly, both features were purposeless at best and a waste of developmental time at worse.

Expect more lengthy, topic-specific posts later today and tomorrow.

48 Responses to It’s True – It Hurts To Be Right!

  1. Roth says:

    50% more loot per player? Wow. Something tells me that number is going to be lowered. Allowing raids to split and ‘trade’ raiders will do a lot to save 25 mans. But 50% more loot per player just sounds astronomically high. Even if 10 man bosses only drop 1 item (0.1) that would mean 25 man bosses drop 5 items (0.2).

    Even 5 items seems like waaaaay too much loot.

  2. Roth says:

    Sigh…me and my edit button.

    Path of the Titans…agreed. Glad its gone.

    Guild achievements/rewards/etc….fantastic idea. I hope they really expand on heirlooms tbh. Id like to see a Bryntroll type heirloom or a DBW type trinket or a Val’anyr style healing weapon. Not things that are overpowered. Just some items that add a bit of flavor.

    Guild talents…always sounded like a stupid idea to me.

    Archaeology being ‘nerfed’ disappoints me. Im a lore fan myself and was looking forward to spending endless hours on that just for fun and something to do late at night.

    “Medium glyphs”….PLEASE GOD give us a glyph that changes our ghoul into something else. I dont even know if its possible but Id like a glyph that changed our gargoyle into something like:

    An undead Vrykul.
    An Abomination.
    A Plague Eruptor (

    Id also love to see a glyph that allowed us to turn our gargoyle into a frost wyrm.

    • Consider says:

      According to Eurogamer, Archaeology apparently gets some fun little toys like a skeletal raptor mount, and can grant raid buffs (which likely don’t stack, so you probably just need one per 10/25 people). That’s something.

      • typhron says:

        Skeletal Raptor mount, you say?

        That’s almost as metal as a Mechanical Skeletal Warhorse. :v

    • Leviatharan says:

      I have to say, I saw the ability to change your ghoul coming from miles away.
      Other possibilities include:
      Frostwraiths (they’re all over Acherus’ Frost wing),
      Liches (Lich Slap anyone? First ever targeted knockback…),
      Bone Constructs (same as a ghoul, but they automatically Explode when they die and can’t Leap, ie The Damned),
      Geists (exactly the same as a ghoul, just stronger and looks cooler)

      So… Plague Eruptors would use Poison Nova instead of Gnaw, and prolly some type of Charge instead of Leap.
      Abominations would be able to Scourge Hook (free Death Grip?) targets to them and Cleave.
      Vargul would be able to Shockwave, Cleave, and periodically Enrage (basically a pocket warrior).

      (Technically the ‘undead Vrykul’ are called Vargul)

      • Minaka says:

        Mur’ghouls! (Undead murlocs)

      • Sag says:

        I’d be willing to bet that if these ghouls were changed by a glyph only, esp a medium glyph that is used for flavor, that none of the abilities would change at all. It would just be a different skin, something like polymorph: penguin. Not that these ideas don’t sound good, but if they are scrapping things due to balancing issues, why would they add more things to balance?

      • Roth says:

        Keep the abilities the same. Just allow us to change the look.

  3. typhron says:

    Naxxramas 40 was ‘easy’?

    • Consider says:

      Bad, bad typo of mine. 10/25, of course. Fixed.

      • typhron says:


        Though, as far as everything goes, these changes seem to be what a lot of people were hoping for instead. An overhaul to the glyph system is a welcome feature indeed.

        Although, I wonder what they’re going to do with the lore behind the (Path of the) Titans now. With the way they keep teasing us about Titan lore it makes you wonder WHEN they’re going to truly involve them.

      • Kovak says:

        In regards to entry level raid difficulty, GC posted something about needing to run lvl 85 dungeons to be able to manage heroics and than needing the gear from heroics before you can step into raids. So no ding 85 -> Zone into raid without any trouble, like it was in Wrath.

        That’s a welcome change to me, Naxx was TOO easy, even for the first tier of the xpack.

  4. Branith says:

    Call me jaded but overall im sorely disappointed in the changes announced in this press release. However I understand why things like Archeology and Guild talents were scrapped, but having options like those would of contibuted to my playing the game longer. As it stands now i’ll defently be trying SW:ToR when it comes out, prior to tonights release I was firmly onboard the cataclysm bandwagon, now not so. Losing abilities (albeit not in reality) is bad for a game IMO.

    I was so stoked about Path of the titans and Guild talents to further min/max my playstyle and the new improved glyph system just isnt the same, picking up 3 new glyphs is rehasing old content (of which I was disapointed with rehashing vanilla Azeroth) where as Archeology and PotT adds progression related content that although may appear re-hashed glyph system, it basically expounded that system and made it more rewarding and fun.

    Losing guild talents is also bad cause I envisioned the ability to actually have guilds that catered to play styles instead of the lump sum system we have now, and as much as you espoused in this blog pertaining to guilds. This new system does nothing to alleviate the 3 main types of guilds currently in game, Raid guilds, PvP guilds and Socially/casual guilds. Having guild talents would of been IMHO the best and most fun way to actually market your guild to truely recruit like minded people. With all that being said I like my guild currently but its disheartening to see less then 10% of the guild online during non raid hours and after having guild-hopped enough this expansion (more so then in any other expansion) trying to find that right guild fit will be still a wait and see, what can you give me mentality. ohh well!

    • Roth says:

      The problem with Path of the Titans is that we all know exactly what was going to happen.

      1.) All PvE dpsers would choose Path A.
      2.) All PvP dpsers would choose Path B.
      3.) All PvE healers would choose Path C.

      Etc etc etc.

      They didnt remove it because it would make the game “too complex.” They removed it because there was absolutely no way to prevent ppl from choosing all the same path. Dpsers will look for the highest min/max DPS Paths. PvPers will look for best survivability/burst Paths and so on and so forth.

      As for guild talents…I dont think they really knew where to go with those. It seemed like they were simply trying to make heirloom items into a guild talent spec type system. It would help you from level 80-84.9999 and after that…be mostly useless. The new rewards system sounds fantastic. Id love to be able to get mounts or heirlooms via doing things for my guild instead of doing stupid Argent dailies everyday to get Champion Seals.

      • Sag says:

        In looking at what they had planned for guild talents it seems like it would have developed a case where a person either went into a PvE or a PvP guild. Doing one without being in the proper guild may have become a PITA. Blizz wouldn’t want one section of players to have a significant disadvantage over anyone else, unless it was only a gear issue. Forcing players to change guilds in order to do/try something would be annoying.

  5. Branith says:

    Obviously I meant to type Path of the Titans in the 2nd sentence of my above comment and not Archeology. Sorry!

  6. Branith says:

    One last thing, archeology will now become a mundane task that will see very little play time by alot of people. I could very well be wrong but I think this new secondary profession is much like the achievement system of today, I know an awful lot of people who dont care for it (One look at the armory of most mid tiered progression guilds validates this statement) cause it serves no useful purpose and very very limited rewards.

    Call it a product of the times but unlike the old school MMO’s the idea of actually seeing tangible rewards for playing is paramount for maximum enjoyment. I’ll sum it up like this: You think if Raiding, Arena’ing, and random dungeon daily’s would see much light of day if the reward was as limited as say Fishing? Nope cause adding a reward is the carrot that keeps players coming back.

    • Sag says:

      They will probably add more stuff, but it seems they are adding in a mount and a few pets. Not something everyone will do (I’ll probably max it because that is what I do), but it won’t be game breaking.

  7. Branith says:

    Sorry I jsut read an awesome posting on the Blizz forums and it sums up my feelings to a “T”:

    So no one has any ideas?

    Lets just put it this way. This is not enough to be an expansion. Hyping something for almost a full year and then taking out 2 major things without adding something fun is going to be boring.

    I am not sure about you guys but the majority of my time is spent in Dalaraan looking at walls.

    Blizzard has shot down every cool idea and we get left with the exact same thing:

    – Login after we install our expansion
    – Level to the cap to impress our friends
    – Quest and hand stuff in to get exp
    – Finally hit the level cap
    – Wait for our friends to level
    – Wait until 10 friends level so we can raid or 25 so we get better gear.
    – Stand around looking at walls until the next raid or troll trade chat.

    Blizzard keeps offering us the same game. They are not expanding anything. There is no new features that make us say “damn thats really cool” and any time we suggest something it gets put into consideration and people start crying about it and they dont bother with it.

    Face it, were stuck with the same thing, over and over and over again.

    • Branith says:

      That post pretty much sums up what an expansion should be for an MMO: New and exciting things to do.

      I expect an expansion to contain some but not all of the following:
      New classes
      Alternate advancement
      new crafting professions
      new dungeons
      new abilities and skills
      new lore
      expanding gameplay
      adaptable game play techniques

      As it stands now and I know its hyperbolic to say but Cata is nothing but rehashing the old with nothing new and excting to look forward to other then new class skills/talents/abilities, and im almost positive that wont keep the newness of the expansion fresh for very long.

  8. Roth says:

    I dont mean to sound rude or judgmental, but youre starting to sound a bit doom and gloom now. We werent even in beta yet (hell, the NDA hasnt even been lifted) and youre giving up on the expac already. Nothing new is being added? Thats a very strange thing to say considering theyre adding:

    1.) 3x more quests than WotLK.
    2.) Changing Azshara to become a horde zone.
    3.) Changing the look of many Horde areas.
    4.) Adding Rated BGs.
    5.) Allowing us to split raids and raid IDs.
    6.) Adding new BGs
    7.) Adding new dungeons and reintroducing newer versions of classic dungeons.
    8.) Allowing guild rewards.

    And thats just the stuff we know about now. We have a good 4-6 months of development left to see what other things they add. The fact that theyre removing PotT is good imo. It would have simply turned into another WotLK talent situation where they spend a huge chunk of their time balancing it (like they have talent trees/specs/pvp comps/etc) instead of adding content.

    PotT and guild talents simply werent worth it.

    • Consider says:

      This a thousand times. Blizzard always ends up biting a bit more than it can chew, and scraps something. Such was the case in both Wrath and BC. Given no time constraints, I’m sure they would love to include everything, but such isn’t the case, and if they had to ditch something, PotT and guild talents were the best candidates.
      Guild talents.

      What was PotT but glorified glyphs which weren’t class specific? It’s better for them to just go back to the original, current glyph system and review and improve then make this new contraption which is redundant and unnecessary.

      Guild talents aren’t really going away, per se. Blizzard just recognized the fact that guild talents were going to have to be accessible enough to be achievable by everyone, as I believed, and thus it was better to just roll it into a default aspect of being in a guild – a la guild leveling. It’s really not scrapping the system so much as negating the illusion of picking and choosing which “talents” would have created – you get everyone, so long as your guild is X level.

      • Branith says:

        What was PotT but glorified glyphs which weren’t class specific? It’s better for them to just go back to the original, current glyph system and review and improve then make this new contraption which is redundant and unnecessary.
        -Unless some vastly new incarnation of a glyph system gets worked from the begining I dont see this new system as good or as a form of alternate advancement this game sorely lacks. The original intent from which I gathered for PotT was to a form an alternate advancement idea that was molded on “taking quite a while to finish” and yes even though there would of been must have PotT glyphs with little deviation from the min/max crowd, it still would of taken a long time to aquire them all. Now we get 3 new glyph slots compared to the 10 from the original PoT idea and less time to aquire, leaving WoW with no other form of Alternate Advancement besides raiding.

        Guild talents aren’t really going away, per se. Blizzard just recognized the fact that guild talents were going to have to be accessible enough to be achievable by everyone, as I believed, and thus it was better to just roll it into a default aspect of being in a guild – a la guild leveling. It’s really not scrapping the system so much as negating the illusion of picking and choosing which “talents” would have created – you get everyone, so long as your guild is X level.
        -I think they could of made guild talents expandable and very much like current talent trees. there are numerous ways one could of taken this new system least of all making it very much like current class talents, i.e. having 3 trees, each catering to the 3 main types of guilds that I adressed in one of my earlier posts, PvP Guild, PvE Guild, Socially/Casual Guild. They could of made 3 talent trees each catering and favoring 1 of those 3 types of guild activities. It was so obvious that was what I Invisioned could of been the ultimate form of guild talent tree. If you ever played Warhammer online then you know the stale and boring guild rank structure of that game was far less rewarding and uniqie as what could of been done by having “choices” within a guild talent pool. And I must add at least in WAR you have every 5 levels of a guild rank structure the ability to buy new upgrades to your standard bearers so unless this new redisigned system at lest matches WAR system in scope and choice then Blizz’s verion will be a disapointment.

      • Roth says:

        Oh yea, I forgot Reforging as well. Thats going to be amazing.

    • Branith says:

      1.) 3x more quests than WotLK.
      -2000 of those are for leveling up and new races, only 1000 for 81-85, and as all know questing is non-existeent after 85 as the end game takes over.

      2.) Changing Azshara to become a horde zone.
      -eye candy

      3.) Changing the look of many Horde areas.
      -eye candy

      4.) Adding Rated BGs.
      -the one saving grace so far, lets just hope Blizzard has learned from their too numerous PvP mistakes to actually make this one work. For the life of me I cant fathom how a company can be so good at pve content yet be so bad at pvp content.

      5.) Allowing us to split raids and raid IDs.
      -Very very nice idea, looking forward to this, but one caveat to this, as I see the vast majority of WoW players going to a 10 man raid model forgoing 25 mans, I already know of 4, top 10 guilds on my server who are forming 10 man only guilds to help alleviate the logistical problems of keeping a 25 man roster.

      6.) Adding new BGs
      -good but its something the PvP’ers have been screeming for a long time, hell games like WAR shipped with 4x the amount of battlegrounds. Lets just hope these 2 new BG’s arent IoC or SotA 2.0.

      7.) Adding new dungeons and reintroducing newer versions of classic dungeons.
      -new dungeons are nice, but rehashing old dungeons is not, and as an expansion that grows pretty short on newness on many peoples minds grows, adding same old same ol is about as esciting as watching paint dry.

      8.) Allowing guild rewards.
      -getting rid of the guild talents as I stated in my previous replys takes away a form of “alternate advancement” that is sorely lacking in WoW, yes I know it wasnt working as intended but they could of expanded on it so much more by making each person within a guild able to assign their own guild talents that teh GM or council bought.

      • Sag says:

        1.) You don’t want to try a single new quest they have developed? I’ve probably leveled my last alt until the expansion so I can enjoy that stuff more. I’m also the guy that hates to level (wouldn’t know it my the numerous alts…)
        2.) That’s an opinion, we won’t know how it really turns out until it is released.
        3.) Actually changing a look of a lot of zones. I’m curious to see how it turns out. If you’re not, well, sucks for you I guess.
        4.) Um… well, look at players. Some are very good at PvE and suck at PvP. Pretty easy to see how game designers could do that.
        5.) I figure this will do a lot to end 25 man raiding, though I run in a fairly casual guild, we may do 25 man raids if we happen to have the people, but those raids will most likely get split regularly.
        6.) WAR also expected you to PvP. In fact you couldn’t really level to max without PvPing when it did ship. It’s PvE content was poor, and there wasn’t enough of it. Given how it was pushed I would have expected PvP to be big in the game, though from all of the checking I did PvP was also woefully imbalanced and certain classes completely just dominated. And not that I am a huge fan, but what was wrong with the two new BGs?
        7.) Actually I am looking forward to heroic deadmines. Been a while since I have had to take that place seriously. As long as they stay away from requiring heroic mauradon I’ll be ok.
        8.) Letting the individual assign talents sort of takes away from the idea of a guild… Making the GM do it puts extra responsibility on to people who really don’t need it. It’s difficult enough being a GM.

  9. Roth says:

    Sounds like you had 1 foot out the door before even hearing all this news. Not really sure what you expected. Being picky about quests you have no information on seems rather strange.

    • Branith says:

      actually no ive been trying to convince my best friends to stick with Cata and no run off to FFXIV or ToR or Guild wars 2. Im still gonna stick with WoW as its been time tested for maximum enjoyment, what my gripe is they are removing what IMO was the next evolution in WoW; That is alternate advancement that rivals EQ/LoTR content, now its going to be nothing but the same ole thing, albeit very fun same old thing.

      And yea, reforging better not get knocked off either lol, that will make the game alot more enjoyable at end game.

      • typhron says:

        The best way to get someone to stop playing FFXIV or GW2 is to just let them do it to see how bad it will be.

      • Sag says:

        I see nothing wrong with trying other games. Like Typhron says most other games just aren’t going to have what WoW has. I actually don’t think other MMOs are going to really be able to sprout up until after WoW closes shop. That will happen when Blizz says it will.

        Think of all of the things that you want WoW to have that it doesn’t. A new game would have to rival WoW in content and balance (which is laughable at times yes), while implimenting all of these new things and providing some sort of alternate content and leaving both PvP and PvE as ways to advance. This is quite a hefty bill to fit and quite frankly I don’t think EA would do it. Other MMO companies may not feel like they have the time or the money to sink that sort of investment into one game to try and take out WoW.

        I’ve looked at FFIV, and really I’m not impressed yet. I don’t see anything new, just prettier pictures.

      • disargeria says:

        I always recommend checking out other MMOs. They really make me appreciate WoW more. Other MMOs could learn a lot from WoW, and WoW would do well to learn from them, too.

        One example I remember was being able to queue anywhere in the world for battlegrounds in Warhammer. Was that Warhammer? I’m not sure, but it was a good idea and WoW adopted it.

  10. Raaj says:

    So, now that they have dropped a ton of stuff out of Cataclysm, how about adding to some existing features? For example, I would really like a third (and maybe a fourth) speccing option. Right now I have one for tanking and one for DPSing, and I am having to respec at least 3 times a week. It isn’t the cost that gets to me either, it is sitting there rebuilding all my bloody hotbars and reglyphing the new spec every second day that gets really annoying fast.

    Being able to have a max dps spec, a raid tank spec, a Heroic Spec, a questing spec and a PvP spec… oh wait, that is 5. Hmm, ya, I respec too often, but right now I don’t see a way around it (H Blood Princes needs its’ own spec). I think 10k for the third and 100k for the 4th would be a nice option (and a great money sink for older characters).

    At least with this I would feel WoW is adding something useful for the expansion to make my personal game time more enjoyable.


    • Roth says:

      I like it but 100k is a way too steep. A max of 10k would be fine.

      The real money sinks should be the guild rewards. That would be a fantastic way to support the guild if the gold we spend on heirlooms/mounts/tabards/etc went to the guild fund.

      • Raaj says:

        I would agree that half the money spent on guild/guild mount tabards should go to the guild vault, but large money sinks do help reduce mudflation. And 100k in Cataclysm, again due to mudflation, will likely take as long to earn as 30 to 50k in WotLK. A few months of effort for casual players, a few weeks of effort for the truly insane.

  11. Branith says:

    how the “F” do you earn 30-50k casually? I have jsut under 10k the most gold ive ever had in this game and this is thanks to selling primordial saronites. Anything over 5k is way to much unless theres some unknown hidden secret to making gold?

    As it stands 200-300g a day with dailys, subtract at least half of that for repairs and consumubale expense for raiding, I jsut dont see how people make gold.

    • Azerius says:

      Convert everything you don’t use, on all characters to potential gold.
      Stone keeper shards / Badges of Triumph / Honour are all easily converted into Gems.
      Northrend quests when bored on a lv 80 can get you around 7-10k gold depending on how quick that char levelled through the content.
      P-Saronites are a given, as you came to realise.

      It all adds up over time

      • Roth says:

        Argent Dailies add another 200-250 gold a day. Find a friend and do those.

        You can also do No Rest For the Wicked (22g) and the Icecrown Bombing quests for another 25-30g.

      • dmdskitzo says:

        Oh i solo zg and aq 20 as a mostly icc 10 geared unholy dk. Those are anywhere between 250-400g a run. Oh i should also add they reset every three days.

    • Sag says:

      I bounce to and from raiding. Since I have had a lot of stuff come up in real life raiding has taken a seat and I just play for fun, do dailies, a dungeon or two maybe the weekly and pvp some. That being said it is very easy to earn gold in this game. Some of it does depend on server economy, but I used to make a killing on the AH game (Buy low, sell high!). Since prices roughly follow demand doing things like posting raid mats (flasks, potions, fish even, etc) on Tuesday does well, as well as buying on cheaper days (usually something like wednesdays) instead of buying on the weekends (like buying primordial saronite on the weekend = bad idea). Every server is different, but check the prices of materials/items everyday for a week and watch the fluxuation, then decide what to make/farm and when to sell.

  12. Baadshah of Dawnbringer says:

    I’m baaaack! I’ve been reading new posts whenever I can, but have been pretty preoccupied and hence been unable to comment.

    The post sums up my thoughts on the Path of the Titans and guild talent system quite well- nice ideas, good concepts, but ultimately unfeasible. I’d much rather see them putting in effort into improving the existing glyph system.
    I’m quite disappointed that they think minor glyphs are OK as is, but perhaps it won’t seem like such a big deal when Medium glyphs are introduced.

    Loosening up the constraints on raid IDs sounds good, but I am also a little wary at possible abuse that could happen here with stealing IDs, griefing, etc.

    As far as downsizing and continuing existing 25 mans goes, it sounds like a good idea, but I must wonder how it’ll be implemented.

    Lets say an instance has 8 bosses. My 25 man raid downs the first 3 and decides to pick it up tomorrow. Due to bad attendance, we form 2 10 mans the next day so we can still progress. One 10 man downs the next 4 bosses, while the other downs only 3. The following day, we have 25 players online again. Will it be possible to go back to the 25 lockout? If so, which 10 man group’s version do we “enlarge”? I’d assume the one with more bosses down, but I can’t be sure.
    And incidentally, if it’s a non-linear raid (which almost every raid except ToC and the one-boss dungeons have been) in which bosses from different wings/areas were killed, how does the “valid” lockout get decided.

    To put this into some more perspective: Lets say I’m a ret pally in ICC using this new lockout system. After downing the first 4 bosses in one night, I join the 10 man version the next day and we clear Plague Wing. My lovely Tiny Abomination in a Jar does not drop.
    The other 10 man does Blood and Frost wings. They downed 4 bosses, compared to us who did 3. Would the “re-enlarged” version have Blood and Frost down and Plague up? If so, wouldn’t this give me an unfair advantage at getting two chances at my trinket in a single week?

    Oh and I *dearly* hope that Blizzard tries to mend the mess they made of Titan lore in WoTLK. Ulduar and Northrend were awesome, but they really screwed up (in my opinion) with proper explanations regarding what was happening.

  13. Volug of Azgalor says:

    “Lets say an instance has 8 bosses. My 25 man raid downs the first 3 and decides to pick it up tomorrow. Due to bad attendance, we form 2 10 mans the next day so we can still progress. One 10 man downs the next 4 bosses, while the other downs only 3. The following day, we have 25 players online again. Will it be possible to go back to the 25 lockout?”

    I’m fairly certain that GC answered this question already. The answer was that once you break the raid up into 10 mans that you can’t reform it as a 25 man.

    • Minaka says:

      Yes, you can “downgrade” from 25 to 10, but you can’t “upgrade” a 10 to 25.

      • Andy says:

        They might eventually allow re-forming a 25man if multiple 10mans have all killed the same bosses – just like how you can swap to a different raid ID if that raid has the same bosses dead as your current one.

  14. Nyth says:

    I personally don’t see the huge fuss, as i thought PotT was going to be really hard to model anyway.

    First of all you have the obvious “best path for each spec”; it’s very hard to create fun stuff that has zero effect on your characters abilities in either pve or pvp. From the examples they gave it was already pretty clear that eventually people would just pick the best route. I think changing such a thing to medium glyphs that do what small glyphs were actually suppose to do (IMO), is a good change in that regard.

    Second of all Path of the Titans would hardly add any dept. I hate to burst some peoples bubble but it wouldn’t. The way they made it sound would just be another “restricted rep grind”, just like factions as Sons of Hodir where you can only gain X per week.
    They’d have to stretch that out to create dept, and keep it casual friendly meaning more hardcore players (most of us here) would be done in 1-3 days with it, and then have to wait another month for the next part to open up, in a figurative way of speech.
    If you see that as depth, you’ll be entertained enough by the 3000 new quests, if you just do 5 of those a day you’ll be entertained for the next 2 years !

    Guild talents sounded interresting, but as mentioned. It would create too many walls. Being in a PvE guild would make me inferior in PvP combat. Being in guild A would net me more money per raid than being in Guild B. Not to mention the hassle about what talents to chose, i can see guild drama already. That is really bad design.
    The only way to prevent that is to either:
    a) Make all the talents so trivial that it doesn’t really matter; and that means REALLY trivial like: If you are in this guild your ghostmount during the corpse run will be a BAT instead of a Gryphon … REJOICE !
    b) Make all talents the same, and make it more dynamic in another way.

    Option A doesn’t really add much; Option B was obviously the better choice.

  15. Nyth says:

    The way they can add more depth in cata is by adding stuff to do outside of raids; i think that is a major thing they can improve upon, some solo or really small group activity. Because currently you can do either some BGs, you can do some heroics and you can do some quests (dailies). That’s about it, other than that most people are often standing still in Dalaran.

    One of my favorite ideas is to give every class the ability to solo old content pretty well. (Maybe make it 3-5 man for WotLK and solo Vanila / TBC). Currently DK (which i guess most here are) can easily, but my rogue for example can not.

    And then add some easy yet more stuff to do to older instances. Be it a rare mount, a pet, a tabard, random treasure with gold or something. Daily quests in old instances; etc etc

    That way you:
    a) Give people another option to do while they’re bored
    b) More collectables
    c) Keep people around the world
    d) Don’t waste old content.

    I still solo ZG for the mounts each 3 days. So did i with Magisters Terrace heroic until i got both the mount and the pet. It’s currently rather restricted though. And i think adding stuff here would give more things to do during random days.

    And there is more to add like this.

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