Build 12539 – Little For Us

I’m exhausted and have work in the morning, so actual analysis (not that much is needed, considering how little changed for us) and commentary will have to wait until tomorrow.

Logged on to beta, and there’s no longer any doubt that this appears to be it for us: just about nothing. Of course, that should make the next patch all that much more fulfilling… but, because of that, the wait all that much more agonizing! What can you do, what can you do.

Death Knight:


  • When a rune-based ability misses or is dodged/parried, the rune(s) go on cooldown for 10 seconds (as opposed to the current time, which is less than a GCD and thus irrelevant) if the other rune of the pair is already on cooldown. If the other rune is still up, then the miss behaves as on live.


  • Dark Simulacrum – Cooldown reduced to 1 minute (down from 2 minutes). Cost increased to 20 Runic power (up from 0 anything).


  • Icy Touch – Tooltip no longer states increased threat in any specific presence. Note, this was already the functionality on beta; this is simply a wording correction.


  • Anti-Magic Shell – Tooltip no longer states runic power generation upon absorbing damage. Note, this was already the functionality on beta; this is simply a wording correction.
  • Ghoul Frenzy – Increases ghoul haste by 50% (up from 25%).
  • Unholy Frenzy – Increases melee and ranged haste by 20% (up from 10%).
Others Affecting DKs:
  • (General) Ability Queueing – Previously you could queue your next ability when your current cast-time one had latency-time left; This functionality now applies to all abilities, including instants.
    • I’m probably doing a really bad job of wording this. Basically, if you’ve ever played a caster, you know you can cast your next spell before your current one ends (Blizzard’s solution to the previous need for stopcast-macros). How long before is a function of your latency. Now, you can do that with instants, too. If you just casted Icy Touch, you can queue up Plague Strike before the gcd is over. How long before it’s over should be a function of latency, but it seems to be higher than simply (Latency/100) seconds.
  • (Warlock) Jinx – Your Curse of the Elements also effects all nearby enemy targets within 20/40 yards of the cursed target, and your Curse of the Weakness also reduces the targets energy, rage, focus or runic power generation by 5/10% while active.
Random Yet Interesting:
  • SPELL_FAILED_IN_COMBAT_RES_LIMIT_REACHED = “You can no longer resurrect during combat”;

34 Responses to Build 12539 – Little For Us

  1. Anaroth says:

    I guess that’s the easiest way to limit soulstone, rebirth and ankhing from cheesing encounters.
    I suspect it’d be 1 per 5 persons in the raid per encounter.

    That Jinx talent would suggest that the nerf to ebon plague might be reversed.

    • Consider says:

      EP wasn’t really nerfed. Pest still spread it. All the wording change did was prevent Outbreak from proccing it, amusingly enough.

      • Anaroth says:

        Didn’t it also have only a 30 second duration? So didn’t play well with epidemic as listed.

      • Sag says:

        Honestly I find that currently EP is the last disease to fall off. I never really understood why that was, I assume it has to do with server latency or something. Maybe it is even just the graphic and the actual disease has run out. Anyone else notice that happening currently?

  2. Rebellion says:

    For now it doesn’t look like a long awaited deathknight love 😦
    I guess thats what a paladin feels like, because they are usually the last class to be done ^^.

    • Minaka says:

      “I guess thats what a paladin feels like, because they are usually the last class to be done ^^.”

      Except that Pallies got a TON of changes this patch. Also, EVERY class claims that they are the forgotten or overlooked class that only gets attention at the last second.

  3. Anaroth says:

    Yeah the list of new talents on the MMO-champion DB doesn’t seem to have anything for DKs.


    I could see the new Frost attack in the spell changes either, but i didn’t look too hard.

    There’s a few shaman changes, but yeah it looks like we’re still pretty broken.

  4. Jonneh says:

    Can’t wait really, though there is no urgency!

    The thing with CoE and the other ‘13% magic’ debuffs… will they also increase disease damage? Does EP even still do that in the beta? I’ve not really looked around for info but its always in the back of my mind whenever I think about playing another spec. I’ve been the only DK in my guild for so long now, it’d be nice to be able to consider being frost for a change of pace! Depending on how devistated Unholy is when the dust settles anyway.

    Does the disease damage taken debuff even exist under the cata model?

    • Consider says:

      Yes, EP still increases disease damage… your disease damage. It was changed last patch.

      Others do not, of course.

      • Jonneh says:

        Ah, yea I see the wording change. Doesn’t work for other DKs or Shadow Priests now then I guess, another ‘you must have an unholy dk’ loop hole closed.

    • Jonneh says:

      btw Consider, I guess now is the time to be vocal on the beta boards about scourge strike. I asked you about it under your last post, and it seems like lots of people have a view on it. It feels like the time to ensure we’re heard about having a lasting and dare i say permanent solution to the scourge strike issue.

      I completely support it being redesigned again, at the moment its just a pointless gimick which really doesnt do anything except punish us for the mistake of allowing both halves to crit. As a signiture ability, its below par, nothing like mortal strike, bladestorm, heart strike, frost strike, mutilate…

      Even now with shadowmourne I’m a good 10-15% dps behind a ret pally in similar gear with the legendary 😦 (Obviously without the hotfix i’d be about 30% ahead or something silly, but thats not the point!)

      Brainstorming and posting idea’s about revamping it again may at least show developers that we’re not happy with its implimentation to date, and that they need to take steps to prevent another expansion where its nerfed and buffed all the time. You never know, they make take some good ideas on board.

      Wish I was in the beta to start a thread myself!

      • Consider says:

        I really have to sleep or I’m just plain screwed tomorrow, but in short – I’m really just waiting until they give us whatever it is to do with our frost runes and/or until they take another look at the Unholy tree as a greater whole. Judging from the twitter chat, they seem to be aware of the issues (most of the issues, anyways) concerning SS, so we’ll see what they’re solution is and whether their solution actually does what it needs to do.

        As for specific numbers though, really don’t worry about them. Number balancing is (relatively) easy, and as such comes last. It’s the mechanics, implementation, and the like which are of most importance – and where SS still lacks, yes!

  5. dwism says:

    Well there has been some slight changes in the tree-build-up that I’m rather fond of (purely looking at it from i do not have beta access. ). But I guess that does not count as major changes 🙂

    • Consider says:

      Those trees are actually wrong. Rune Tap and Will of the Necropolis are still linked, and Unholy Frenzy had its effect doubled. The latter is the only new talent-related change.

  6. Zeran says:

    Nothing looks majorly different, but GC’s comments have fixed most of my concern about bloat for unholy since I see no reason to subspec frost (tier 1 has no use once RE is baseline and we aren’t spamming IT). I find myself building an 8/0/33 build, deciding between dirge and ghoul frenzy or AMS.

    • Jonneh says:

      Not even worth looking at yet though, since they’ll need to replace RE.

      Wouldn’t be surprised if all our trees get changed alot more like paladins have had. They all seem to have alot of problems at the moment. On the surface they look alright but once you drill down.. its clear there is alot of work to do.

  7. Jonneh says:

    •Ghoul Frenzy now grants your pet 50% haste. (Up from 25%)

    Not mentioned in your post above, Consider!

    Seems they actually want us to use it this time around, which is interesting.. but not really surprising since it survived the cull of useless talents, dispite it being useless currently. The heal is kinda pvp oriented, surely.. but i suspect they want to bring it back into pve as well. As such….

    Good points:

    Its something to do with our pet which needs some actual attension. I’m sure all of you like me simply have /petattack macroed into all your strikes and ignore it.

    Its breaks up the tunnel vision rotation sindrome a bit.


    Boss mechanics. Bloodqueen springs to mind here, but its not an isolated incident. Fights where having a pet do 10% of your dps can be a disadvantage because the boss mechanic means that someone else will do the job better than you. IE, being bitten on BQ doesn’t affect the pet, so its always better for a non-pet dps to be bitten. Loads of other examples throughout wotlk, like pets being knocked away by tail swipes, so on and so forth.

    UI is also a problem. Correct me if I’m wrong but last time we didn’t really have much to show us if they pet had the buff in the default UI. Personally I’m a fan of making the cooldown the same as the duration as a simple fix, so you know when to reapply without any UI haxness. (Thoguh I use TellMeWhen these days and that’d really just solve the problem anyway)

    Thoughts anyone?

    • Roth says:

      The problem with Ghoul Frenzy is simple: 1U.

      If they want us to actually use Ghoul Frenzy, then they need to make Ghoul Frenzy cost Runic Power or just flat out make it free. The Warlock equivalent (Demonic Empowerment) is free. So there really isnt any justification for Ghoul Frenzy ‘s 1U cost.

      Unholy Frenzy is a very welcome buff. But now they need to remove the 45% health cost. Theres absolutely no reason it needs to cost us any health at all. With healer mana becoming much more important in Cataclysm, the 35-50k healing needed to offset the ability is completely unnecessary.

      Does anyone else find that rune change really strange? 5 seconds? Seems like a very odd number choice. Im thinking that might be a bug.

      • Jonneh says:

        I guess we dont really have much of a penalty for misses like other classes do at the moment. Just a global lost. Wouldn’t be surprised if this was an attempt to change that!

        Agree on the other points though, not really thought about the HP loss on UF before.. but that does feel steep in a mana intensive healing environment. It’ll only lead to irritation.

        I actually played shadow priest in BC, and SW:D back then was the same. Some fights you just felt you had to drop it from your rotation, or risk death. Or at least waste a global on a PW:S.. and believe me, VE healed the caster alot more than Blood Presence does now, and we don’t even have that in Cata. Some boss mechanics even precluded ever using it at some points.. Prince, Reliquary of Souls and well… any fight with high raid damage of which there are usually 2/3 per instance!

        Really don’t want to go from the damage sponge we are now with bone shield and etc to a fragile glass cannon setup, though I suppose one can’t have everything!

      • Sag says:

        I believe I said the same thing. Though I believe the demonic empowerment for warlocks does cost mana, but it’s a matter of like 400ish mana and a mana bar that has over 20k mana. Also demonic empowerment does a lot of additional damage for the felguard. It should be pressed every 42 seconds in a demo rotation in pve, unless it is known that everyone will be frozen etc because demonic empowerment also removes all movement impairing effects from the FG, or FH, and maybe even the succubus (it says it removes debuffs, not sure how that plays out). That’s a whole lot different than a talent that isn’t even currently taken.

    • Sag says:

      Supposedly pets will scale with all stats. This, as I understand it, means your pet will get 0 buffs from the party to prevent pet classes from “double dipping”. Currently life prevents me from raiding, and I barely get in my 10 arena matches for the week, but it would seem to me that your pet would scale with your bite “buff” if they now scale with every stat (apparently 100% scaling). I can’t link to the forums at work, but it’s possible DKs missed that message since only one tree has pets. Warlocks and hunters fainted, shortly after a nerd joygasm.

  8. Anaroth says:

    If you want to test something I wouldn’t mind testing a couple of thing related to presences.

    1) Do pets get percentage damage boosts? I know they’ve upped the amount of things that pets share but if pets get the damage boost from frost presence it could be more viable for unholy.

    2) Does unholy presence give spell haste, and more importantly does it haste disease ticks?

    • Jonneh says:

      That really makes me wonder actually, since pets now scale off all our stats.. does that include %damage buffs? There are quite a few ingame. (Current 4piece, blood presence (current), Hysteria, etc)

  9. Jonneh says:

    Question of the week: How the hell has Butchery continued to survive the cull?

    “Q. Still “un-fun” talents in the 3-point trees like Spirit Tap. Are damage-dealing specialization mana regeneration talents that may feel mandatory staying in game?
    A. Spirit Tap and other purely “leveling talents” are being re-evaluated.”

    Hope Butchery is included!

    T1/T2 frost and blood seem to defy the comments GC made about how the early trees should include passives for sub-speccing. I guess Unholy could be included too.

    Should prolly stop posting and just wait for the next pass ;|

  10. Vorga says:

    I don’t like the sound of the 5 sec cd on runes when we miss. That’s going to really get to me.

    Sometimes we just have unlucky streaks. Miss twice with obliterate then sit there… runes can be scarce and we can blow through 4 of ’em in 3 seconds.

    If you’re low on runic power and get unlucky enough to miss twice with OB or DS, you could sit there for 6.5 seconds with only auto attack… that doesn’t seem right to me for some reason… just the posibility of it…

  11. Rebellion says:

    The CD on rune-misses has to be a bug … what is the justification (besides pvp) for a change like this, when our whole energy system is already upside down. Do they really want to force us to go for hit and expertise cap no matter what ? Even worse for tanking of course ….

    • Roth says:

      Agreed. It just sounds far too random to be anything but a bug.

    • Sag says:

      Yay DnD? Hard to have an AoE miss, though I am sure it happens. How does that 5 second CD interact with the current rune CD? So if I BS and hit (1 Blood rune on CD) then I BS and miss, will both runes be on CD at the same time? I’m thinking that has to be a bug as well. It’s a pretty stiff penalty.

  12. Zombona says:

    I am curious about something, right now on live a double oblit crit hits for around 20-30k when dual wielding with ToT, and using a 2H it only crits for about 10-15k how is this damage difference being balance in cata to include 2H frost

    • Jonneh says:

      I don’t think its worth comparing any numbers between live and cata beta. With the huge swath of changes, the behind the scenes tweaks to the numbers to balance everything will be significant (and invisable).

      • Sag says:

        numbers aren’t done, but I believe Might of the Frost Wastes will be balanced to provide enough RP for FS to make up for it. If anything that talent can be tweaked to provide whatever 2 handed frost needs.

  13. Dalavita says:

    It’ll be silly if DW frost does more damage/hit compared to 2h weapons, as that’s the main attraction with playing 2h 😛

  14. Tago says:

    The rune cd on misses is weird, I checked it out on the boss dummy in Ebon Hold, refresh seems dependent on the state of the second rune – both runes up makes the missing rune refreshes almost immediately, while one rune down causes the missing rune to take it’s full cd (as if used successsfully).

    • Consider says:

      It’s not the full CD in the latter case. It refreshes faster than the other rune does. It appears to be twice as quick, but without mods and the like, it’s really hard to judge based off the default rune UI. 5 seconds seems to be about right, although it could be +- 1s.

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