Hypotheticals – Unholy’s Up

Before I begin, a trio of very important notes!

First: To make sense of some of this post, be sure to have read “Hypotheticals – Frost First” in its entirety. This and that go together – both take place in the same theoretical patch, if you will, so changes (to Outbreak and RE, primarily) said there apply just as much here. I’ve tried to quickly sum things up where needed, but it’s best to simply check out that post to be safe.

Secondly, and related to the above: Remember, my goal here isn’t to try and invent new abilities or systems to solve our problems. A couple commenters seemed to forget that fact! We’re simply not that broken and, even if we were, I still wouldn’t try to do that – the simplest solutions are, often times, best, and besides, I won’t pretend to know what Blizzard can and can’t actually do. My goal here was pretty well outlined in the previous post, I thought, in the form of my wonderful checklist!

Third and last: Unholy is much more difficult to “fix” than Frost, which is why this post took me so many revisions (over a dozen, in fact) to get to a state I liked. Just think about all of its current issues: It’s gcd capped, it’s heavily favoring dual-wielding, two of its main foci (pets and diseases) are almost entirely passive and are entirely independent of one another, Runic Empowerment is Runic Empowerment, and so on. Tackling any one of these issues, in a vacuum, is actually pretty easy to do. The trick is to tackle all of these issues together, and to do so in a manner which not only solves them all, but creates a cohesive and fun playstyle which adheres to Blizzard’s vision of the tree. Whether I’ve managed to do that, I’ll let you be the judge.

Anyways, with that out of the way, where was I?


Make sense? Probably not. So, working left to right and following the arrows, the changes –


Everything I wrote in the Frost post still applies here. Make Outbreak a 2rune strike with minimal-to-no-CD capable of applying both diseases while dealing moderate (but far from outstounding) damage, and then relegate IT and PS to PvP use (you could even merge IT with CoI and PS with NS to emphasize this, for all I know).

The only new thing to note is that Unholy would require some means of changing the cost from UF to BF, for obvious reasons. This could easily be baked into an already existing talent (as its too weak to constitute one all on its own), or made into a minor/medium glyph.

[Scourge Strike]

Oh, Scourge Strike. I’ve had quite a few ask me over the past couple days what, exactly, I had planned for this gem of a strike. Afterall, it’s an ability which has been through a million changes already, and yet is still rather unsatisfying for a skill which is so iconic and so integral (in theory, anyways) to the spec. It’s boring. It’s not that potent. It’s relatively unimportant to the tree as a greater whole. It’s terribly flawed. So, what-oh-what would I do to fix it?

Remove the shadow damage portion and simply make damage increased by X% per disease. I’m sure my readers are intelligent enough to know that, due to current functionality, this is essentially how it already works. The tooltip is just misleading and plain confusing – there’s nothing wrong with it being pure physical, but there is something wrong with people naturally assuming otherwise.

Then, with that done, add text to the tooltip to the effect of “Effects which increase shadow damage also increase Scourge Strike damage”. Similar to Maul for Druids. Even if I don’t completely understand or agree with it, I accept Blizzard’s decision that they can’t make the strike do complete shadow damage for PvP reasons. Changing the text in this way would keep the flavor around, as well as (some of) the functionality, without balance issues the past version caused and without perception issues the present version causes. You could easily change some talents and the like around to make there be more active/passive shadow damage increases in the tree so that this actually matters beyond Ebon Plague.

Finally, give Scourge Strike a chance (maybe 100%, maybe not) to cause your Blood Plague to instantly tick on the target (without affecting the duration or time between ticks). This would accomplish a ton; it would make SS more attractive without boosting its personal damage, it would make our mastery more interesting and potent, it would make diseases less passive, and it would tie into my proposed Unholy Runic Empowerment talent.

In sum, the resultant tooltip would read something like, “An unholy strike that deals X% weapon damage plus Y, total damage increased by Z% per each of your diseases on the target. Effects which increase shadow damage also increase Scourge Strike damage” with a talent then saying “Your Scourge Strike ability has an X/2X% chance to cause your Blood Plague to instantly erupt” or some such thing.

[Runic Empowerment]

It’s very important that you’ve read the Runic Empowerment section of my Frost post for this part to make sense. For a quick summation: I would change Rune Strike (and Runic Empowerment) to become the Death Knight’s version of the new Arcane Missiles, with each tree modifying the proc to suit its theme/needs/playstyle.

For Unholy’s version of RE, I wouldn’t make it an actual proc, in fact. The tree isn’t intended by Blizzard to be as proccy as Frost, and it doesn’t have to in order to be interesting and unique. Instead, I would make the talent something along the lines of, “Eliminates the chance for rune-based abilities to proc Rune Strike. Instead, your Blood Plague ticks have an X% chance to reduce the remaining cooldown on your Summon Gargoyle talent by Y seconds”.  How high or low X and Y should be, I’m not entirely sure at the moment, but I would imagine 100 and 1 respectively, perhaps.

Such a talent would make the new SS all that much more important and potent. It would finally provide a link between our focus on Scourge Strike, focus on diseases and our focus on pets (hey, who said it had to be the ghoul?) by tying the tree together. It would eat up more runic power, thus aiding in eliminating our GCD problems. Diseases would get another bump in value. Depending on how often you could ultimately summon the Gargoyle, it would give us a much different feel for pets (by constantly having two of them up) than Hunters or Warlocks, as befitting our lore and flavor. It would be passive enough that it wouldn’t require constant attention or a mod to truly take advantage of, but rng and active enough so that good players would make better use of it then bad players.

In short, it may be simple, but it would be wonderfully effective at helping solve many of our numerous problems.

(And, for those concerned, spread diseases from Pestilence could easily be excluded from proccing the reduction)

[Ghoul Frenzy]

I’ll cut right to the point – change the cost to runic power, let it affect Gargoyle, and potentially tweak the duration/potency.

The resource cost change is a given – runes are more precious than ever, and yes, it may be easy to substitute a SS for a GF every minute, it’s not exactly fun, nor is it entirely logical to have us sacrificing our key strike for a boost to our minions which, to a DK, is supposed to be expendable and nothing but a mere tool. Losing out on a Death Coil occasionally is a much smaller matter, not to mention it aids in shifting the focus away from DW and to 2H by lowering spell damage and increasing strike damage. You could always make the cost more/less than 40 RP to help influence the GCD balance whichever way it needs to go.

Affecting Gargoyle ties it into the proposed Runic Empowerment, as well as makes timing important. See the cooldown about to come up from Garg by GF just fell? You’ll have to decide if it’s best to cast GF immediately (and then again once the Gargoyle is out) or hold it off and just cast it once after the summon. A relatively simple decision – the latter case is better in the majority of scenarios – but still, a simple intelligence check never hurts.

Tweaking the duration/potency is all a matter of numbers, of course.

[Sudden Doom]

The pièce de résistance of this all!

Change Sudden Doom from proccing a resource-free Death Coil to a resource-free Scourge Strike, and instead of us proccing it, our Ghoul/Gargoyle does.

This ties everything together – you SS to generate RP and to proc diseases which in turn shorten the cooldown of your Gargoyle which in turn helps proc more SS, and the cycle goes on. Diseases affect pets, pets affect strikes, strikes affect diseases (and pets, via RP generated). Everything matters, and not just that, but it matters because of how it plays with everything else! And, at the heart of it all, you have SS. SS becomes our signature strike, as integral to our play as Frost Strike for Frost.

Plus, it once again shaves off spell damage while buffing strike damage – which, with the other changes, should put us solidly back in 2H territory.

[Unholy Presence]

The massive amount of personal, passive haste Unholy Presence provides is a huge reason the tree is currently so GCD capped. Besides, since when has the Unholy tree been about personal haste? Pet haste, certainly, but personal haste? Psh. That’s been a Frost thing, and is so now more than ever. Plus, run speed is too good and too important to be locked into a presence – make it a tier 1/2 talent.

As such, I’ve been floating a variety of changes in my head and on Twitter, but currently I would say change FP to increase Frost damage and runic power generation and to change UP to increase Shadow damage and pet haste. Both fit their respective specs perfectly, and there would never be a fear one tree would eventually switch to the other presence.

I’m quite interested in suggestions in this regard, as always.


I’ve already covered ERW and AotD in the Frost post. The only thing I might do is add AotD to the Runic Empowerment talent, such that Unholy would be able to use it an extra time or two each fight, but that’s not a huge deal.

Unholy Frenzy is fine – just remove the health cost. Changing it to a heroism type spell would be great for our raid utility, but I’m not sure how realistic that is.

I covered Gargoyle, so there isn’t a ton to say. The auto-attack issue needs to be resolved – either completely disable it unless silenced/interrupted, or make the Gargoyle a melee-focused pet (make the melee attacks pure shadow damage, if it helps).

Everything I didn’t mention in this post or the last – current RP generation rates, for example – I would leave untouched.

So, in summary, what would that do to the Unholy playstyle?

Basically what the picture says!

Although you would use each ability – strike or spell, disease or pet – for its own personal damage, that alone makes for a rather dull spec. Instead, everything would play into something else, which would ultimately come full circle:

  • You would use Outbreak to apply diseases, which are naturally fundamental.
  • You would use Festering Strike to convert to death runes and to increase the duration of diseases, both feeding into more Scourge Strikes.
  • You would use Scourge Strike to force disease ticks.
  • You would use diseases, aside from the obvious reasons, to maximize your Gargoyle uptime.
  • You would use Gargoyle and Ghoul and care to buff them with Ghoul Frenzy to increase Scourge Strike.

So on. The trees could easily be made to fit such a rotation and playstyle, and it’s a rotation/playstyle which I, personally, think would better the spec (and the class). It’s also one which would be somewhat less rigid and dull then the current one, but less proccy and RNG than Frost, as befitting Blizzard’s view of the tree.

The spec would radically favor 2H over DW now. It wouldn’t be GCD capped (and if it was, there’s plenty of knobs to turn). The various focus would all interact with each other, and ultimately come back to Scourge Strike. Runic Empowerment would be interesting. So on.

And, with a mere minute to spare, I make my self-imposed midnight deadline!

Thoughts and such are welcome, as always.

64 Responses to Hypotheticals – Unholy’s Up

  1. kc102 says:

    This would def fix tons of issues, but I’d like to see one where you theory crafted a new rune/RP system.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Great ideas! Blood now and make sure bliz sees em all

  3. Roristus says:

    Those changes would be fantastic for PvE. Something that is already important, but would be even more so in your system, would be a revision of our gargoyle’s AI. We need greater control with a greater portion of our damage coming from this CD. Anything we can tell the ghoul to do (aside from using ghoul exclusive abilities of course) should be viable commands for our gargoyle. This should be possible while still allowing the pets to operate independently from each other.

    If the solution to this would be to add a secondary pet bar, would it be too much to ask for the gargoyle to gain some utility in addition to its damage?

  4. Raaj says:

    I like your suggestions for both frost and unholy. The only additional change I would make from the current setup would be to exchange the Blood Tree Talents Bone Shield and Scarlet Fever. Make Bone shield a 2 point talent (2 bones per point) at teir 2 so both frost and unholy would have a reason to subspec blood.

    Scarlet Fever seems to me to be a pure tanking talent, so why not move it higher, and move the useful dps talent down?

  5. Fahar says:

    Consider u nailed it,

    I absolutely love the UH changes u proposed. I believe that the UH version for RE u came up with is just great. (which leads to a question did you ever come up with a alternative for frost’s RE effect? or are u sticking with the shadowfrost DC?)
    My suggestion/ idea: What if instead of RE being a baseline talent for all specs, it turned into Rune Empowerment and Gargoyle Empowerment, respectively for Blood and Unholy (functioning just like u sugested) and Frost, since it already has so many procs and such, just wouldn’t get it!? Of course frost would be balanced around RE’s absence but it would fix a lot of its problems. What do u think?

    Anyway… Great job with the blog this discussions are rather interesting. Hopefully blizz can benefit of the good ideas the community comes up with.

  6. gravity says:

    I like the ghoul proc’ing a free scourge strike, fits thematically with Unholy.
    You’re definitely an ideas man.
    Are you cross-posting these to Blizzard beta forums?

    • Consider says:

      You should see some of the other playstyles and rotations I had come up with, on paper or simply mentally. No shortage of ideas, I assure you ^^.

      I’m currently not planning on cross-posting these on the beta forums. For obvious reasons, I can’t simply copy and paste, for length/wording reasons, and although I could make a post linking this one with a short synposis of sorts (What this was trying to do, what it ended up doing, or whatever), I’m just not that comfortable linking my own stuff.

      • Kovak says:

        You should be, this is great stuff. Granted it’s just on paper and I haven’t really had a chance to digest it all, but if nothing else it makes the tree fit together as it is now without completely overhauling it. You take a handful of pieces and make something meaningful out of them. Kudos for that. I wish Blizzard would take heed of this.

  7. frostfright says:

    Really good set of changes that actually ties all of Unholy’s supposed foci together. Unholy needed a strong direction, something that took all of its random aspects and made them work with each other, and your newly-designed Scourge Strike accomplishes that. It even works thematically, with Scourge Strike increasing the rate at which you can summon your gargoyle.

    I don’t really have any negative criticism for you, unfortunately. The system you’ve proposed would work perfectly, and scale well with Unholy’s mastery (even though it is kind of a boring mastery).

    I fear that Blizzard’s changes won’t be nearly as creative, but their Paladin redesign leaves me hopeful.

  8. Nessad says:

    I like it, but it may seem too confusing to a normal player. I mean, this way the only simple attack in the spec would be DC. Maybe “SS instant BP tick” and “Sudden doom’s free SS from ghoul” could be switched (I even like how Sudden Doom would proc the same attack, as kind of a finisher). It doesn’t really unlink SS from the diseases, at least indirectly, because of FeS.

    Crossposting the below

    I’ve been brainstorming about the current runeforges, which are kind of boring right now. It is one of the features that makes DK’s stand out as a “Hero” class in endgame, but while the concept is cool, it got really outdated with the specializations. I mean, looking right now, what would we use at Cataclysm?

    Tanks- Stoneskin Gargoyle or Swordshattering. (I will be ignoring tanks for a while)
    DPS – Fallen Crusader
    DW OffHand – Razorice (as frost) / Fallen Crusader (as Unholy)

    And there is no choice, it’s pure “What is better”. Why not give us Fallen Crusader as a specialization on both specs,razorice as a frost talent and get rid of the runeforging? It’s not something I would like, since it removes the flavor of our class, but right now there is no point to it.

    The other option would be actually refreshing the concept. I was looking at MotfW in frost, for example, and said “Why isn’t this a 2h-only runeforge? Why DW specialization talent exists, if it could be on razorice?”. Tons of things could be done, and I think we could give specifics runeforges as specializations for each class, and some generic ones. Most of them would be very good utilities, to compete with pure DPS. Some examples

    Runeforge of the Lichbane – “Your auto attacks deal extra X% damage as shadow damage.” (It’s Necrosis)
    Runeforge of the Cinderglacier – Just make it proc more charges, more often.
    Runeforge of the Frozen Wastes – Exactly like Might of the frozen wastes, with numbers adjusted.
    Runeforge of the Blood Protector – Increases healing taken by X% and blood parasites heal more.
    Runeforge of the Nightfall – Undead Minions last X seconds longer
    Runeforge of the virulent plague – “When your diseases are dispelled, it has a X% chance to infect the dispeller and anyone around him by Y yards”

    We could even have Use Runeforges:

    Runeforge of the Blood Hunter – Use: Mark of blood. Passive: Blood presence allows your attacks to heal you by x% and your Heart strikes can create like shields. (Pretty OP uh?)
    Runeforge of Magic Manipulation – “Use: The DK redirects all magic damage his party/raid members are taking to himself, and reduces the damage by X%, up to Y% of his total health. Passive: Allows the DK to copy 2 spells with Dark Simulacrum.”
    Runeforge of the frozen throne – ” Use or Proc: You create a sphere that move towards the target dealing damage to all enemies around it. If it reaches the target, it explodes dealing damage and slowing them. Passive: Reduces the cooldown of hungering cold by 40s, but it only affects your current target”

    I’m running out of ideas now. Just as a sidenote, we could do pure utility with runeforges, as long we block DKs from enchanting “Berserking” or normal enchants. As a side effect, DPS DKs would then possibly get Fallen crusader as a specialization just not to mess too much with the balance.

    • Consider says:

      Making things too complex was a very real concern of mine, and although it may seem somewhat intricate on paper, because a large amount of it is passive (or near enough), it should actually play out relatively easily. I mean, you don’t actually have to worry if SS procs a disease tick or not. If it does, free damage and lower cooldown on Gargoyle, and if it doesn’t, no big deal. Either way, you proceed as normal. As long as you notice when your Gargoyle cooldown has been reduced to, say, Gargoyle > SD > GF > SS > FeS > DC, although GF may get switched with SS possibly. You only have five actual buttons in your regular rotation (SS, FeS, DC, GF, Garg), which is no more than you have now (PS, IT, BS, SS, DC).

  9. Anonymous says:

    I kinda regret reading this because these ideas are really really good and this is a playstyle I would enjoy playing, but Blizzard probably won’t make any changes even close to this which kinda makes me sad. =(

  10. QXQ says:

    It’s the synergy I always wished the spec had! There’s not a single thing there I don’t like.

    Anyways I’ve nearly got another one of those simulation outputs like I made for Frost, but I’m still deciding exactly what to include and working out some issues.

    Instead, I have this image tracking resources over 40 seconds or so. It may or may not have meaning on its own; it’s just something else I’m trying out. It is technically possible to compute what abilities were used.

    Notes: SD proc rate at 10%, 0 haste whatsoever just to make things simpler.

    Technically there are a couple problems with it but I think the basic idea of the rotation, the abilities that get used, resources that get used and generated, and so on, is more or less there.

    The one thing it doesn’t show well is how much Gargoyle’s cooldown is getting reduced, so I’ll just tell you that after 40 seconds, the cooldown was at 122. It got activated at about the 4 second mark, so it should have been at 144, so there was 22 seconds of reduction. I count 10 SS’s after the Gargoyle usage, and 36 seconds of disease elapsed => 12 duration-caused BP ticks, so the math checks out.

  11. Branith says:

    I like it, although I am uncertain how this would play out in PvP (this is my mea culpa) but one thing is certain: YOU need to make sure the Devs see this maybe post it in the forums or some such.

    • Baadshah of Dawnbringer says:

      It is up to us as readers and consumers to make sure this gets to the devs eyes. Alpha players, use your personal connections!

      With that being said, I will reiterate my belief (stop being modest Consider!) that Blizzard has an eye on this site. If it wasn’t there when I first mentioned it, it certainly is now- the blog is referenced almost daily in Death Knight posts regarding Cataclysm. I just can’t imagine how Blizzard would NOT have taken a glance here by now.

      They even hinted at visiting other sites when they discussed how much feedback they’d gotten on the forums and from visiting “other sites”.

      • Consider says:

        Don’t get me wrong – it’s entirely possible – but this isn’t some huge website or any such thing. It’s a personal blog which is relatively new with little “publicity”. I would love to think someone at Blizzard has read or does read it, but I don’t believe the odds are near as certain as you make it out to be!

        I wish though. I wish =(.

    • Consider says:

      Posting this in the WoW forums – beta or normal – isn’t so simple, unfortunately. For one, it’s much too long. For another, a lot of the wording and like would have to be changed.

      I could post a link to it with a moderate-sized blurb saying what Unholy’s problems are, what this post attempts to do, and what it ends up accomplishing. But I’m not big on linking my own stuff, for various reasons.

  12. Rune says:

    I think what you have here is pretty damn good, more comprehensive than frost anyway.

    I love the ss proccing a bp tick. Also like the idea of the pet proccing another ss which ties it in. I think the pet cooldown reduction thing probably goes a bit far, at least that’s what I think blizzard will feel. The ss change to full physical damage is another great idea.

    Obviously changing the presences is clearly necessary, and the solutions here make good sense.

    I really hope you post this on the forums for the devs to think about. I would not be AT ALL surprised to see the ss proccing diseases thing in a future build, pure genius on your part I have to say.

    I just hope frost gets such good attention from you in the remainder of the beta. I felt the RE idea for frost was a bit weak – not that I have any better ideas mind you.

    Keep up the good work!

    • Fahar says:

      The pet isn’t a issue. It would need to get balanced around having your Gargoyle out more often than the baseline cd. Which again (quote:”A relatively simple decision but still, a simple intelligence check never hurts.”) would help set the difference between a good player and a not so good one. Hence the good players would be able to maximize their disease ticking and ensure optimal up time on Gargoyle.

  13. Jonneh says:

    Very good for the most part, and I like the full circle design. Too long have we just been a gcd chaining monster, with only blowing garg and a bit of AoE to break it all up.

    Some problems though:

    PVP, yes.. I know. Always ruins all the good ideas doesn’t it? I don’t think we could use our garg more often and still be balanced for pvp. Its a massive burst cooldown, for which all other classes must wait the 3 min mark (usually). Its also pretty countered by any priests/paladins. Making it more of a focus on our pvp damage puts us at a disadvantage vs those classes. You may say, sure.. well that’s alright. Everyone needs a counter right? Except its not even a specific pally/priest spec, its all of them.

    More disease damage is good, but I get the feeling that blood plague proccing when you SS is still just a little bit like the current implementation. It’s probably just me but.. I really don’t like the idea of a pure physical SS. I don’t really see why we can’t find some solution for it to be low burst but still good dps. It costs one rune now for a start, there must be ways to make it viable as pure shadow while still making it worth using our Death Runes on vs FS. Obviously it’d need to have some other affect rather than actual impact damage. Perhaps it could apply a stacking debuff which ‘explodes’ when it reached a certain number of stacks? Think like a reverse lifebloom. Maybe the debuff is a 4th disease which ticks away, adding dps and then does a ‘bloom’ of damage at the end.

    The DW issues are easier to solve imo. Move the DW talents in frost down where unholy can’t get them.

    • frostfright says:

      Gargoyle is good in PvP, but the burst it adds is not really that good, and it can be CC’d and LOS’d pretty easily. I don’t think PvP would be a problem, to be honest.

    • Consider says:

      You can easily rework the damage of Gargoyle to factor for its increased uptime, make it immune to the priest/paladin CDs, and then have our burst ability be in the form of a modified ERW or what have you. Ultimately, it could easily turn out to be a buff for PvP.

      I would love for SS to be full, real magical damage too, but I just don’t think Blizzard is likely to go down that road! If they were, I’ld be a huge fan, but sometimes you have to understand their mindset on a subject and accept it, even if you don’t entirely agree with it. Having it be full physical but still benefit from all effects which benefit shadow damage would differentiate it quite a bit, so long as we had some buffs/debuffs which then affected shadow damage.

      A stacking debuff would be tricky. What’s to stop you from stacking it until it’s one away from exploding, using Necrotic Strike + all your cooldowns, then letting it rip. It would make for a large amount of controllable burst, assuming the explosion was somewhat hard. A 4th disease wouldn’t do much, honestly – the only ability Unholy now uses which would benefit would be SS!

      DW is still going to take over, even if you eliminate Nerves of Cold Steel.

  14. Aku says:

    Well definitely some nice ideas here!

    just my 2 cents:

    Scourge Strike: with the complete loss of armor penetration (and thus the former scaling problem) I see no reason why SS couldn’t be a 100% magical dmg strike (once again). It would naturally benefit from all buffs/debuffs which increase shadow/magical dmg like EP or Impurity (and maybe a changed Mastery Bonus) and distinguish nicely from Oblit.

    Runic Empowerment: While I really like your Idea it has a major flaw! Gargoyle is just a talent and thus completely optional. Garg is also our ultimate talent so it makes somewhat little sense to have earlier talents decrease it’s cooldown / bump it’s effectiveness.

    You borrowed the mechanic from ele shamans, but in case of Feedback it’s a follow up talent to Elementary Mastery (so shamys definitely have both). I really doubt this would work for Unholy if Gargoyle keeps the 31 point talent. One possible idea could be to decrease the cooldown of Army of Ghouls instead of Garg. Thats a baseline spell and would also fit quite nicely to Unholys theme. AotD would probably need some changes (less cast time and/or Rune cost) but overall it could work.

    The cooldown decrease through disease ticks is also to static in my opinion. Disease uptime is nearly 100% so its just like a passive flat out CD-decrease. I would tie the mechanic strictly to Scourge Strike (an active ability) – that would also increase the value of Death Runes.

    Sudden Doom: Good idea although a bit random and in fact quite similiar to the current mechanic of Runic Empowerment 😉
    I had the idea of pet criticals increase the crit chance of your next SS (or DC) by 100%. Maybe a bit to similar to Killing Machine but it would help to reduce the GCD problem.

    Presences: I am honestly not a big fan of 2 DPS Presences for DKs. Why not just make Frost Presence THE (PvE) DPS presence and leave Unholy Presence for PvP / utility (reduced GCD / run-speed) like it is today? I would put all 3 Presence-talents in tier 1/2 and make them strictly utility talents. Increased self-heal for Blood, RP generation for Frost and run-speed for Unholy.

    • frostfright says:

      Warlocks have a Destruction talent called Empowered Imp that does exactly what you asked for Sudden Doom (Imp criticals give your next fire spell a 100% critical chance). It works nicely, though it would have to be tweaked for us, since the ghoul attacks fast and crits more often.

      The solution to the Gargoyle dilemma is a bit more difficult. Maybe make Gargoyle given through specialization, and Master of Ghouls the 31 point talent? Not sure. I’m opposed to your idea for reducing Army’s cooldown, because it tends to fuck with boss fights, and would need major changes if it were going to be a spell that Unholy was heavily based around.

      • Aku says:

        Yeah on a second thought Army has serveral other problems too. It is (currently) not usable in Arenas, the taunt sucks in 5 men instances/heroics/non-boss adds and the long casttime is impractical…

        I suppose to make the Gargoyle idea work the talent should simply be lower in the tree (tier 4) and then add the follow up talent to reduce the CD via SS or Dot ticks. Unholy then needs another ultimate. I could imagine a buffed version of Unholy Frenzy (remove HP loss, increases Rune regeneration, maybe fear imune for the duration?).

      • Sag says:

        The imp’s Fireball is currently about a 1.5 second cast. I’m sure that it it could be worked off of Claw crits as opposed to just auto attacks. Also Warlock are going to talent that imp’s fireball down to about 1.25 second casts in cata I believe. If Ghoul Frenzy increases energy regeneration of the ghoul, and Claw crits gave the DK a benefit that would definitely make unholy frenzy a button that I want to press.

    • Consider says:

      SS: Adding the maul-like text to the tooltip would keep it being affected by EP and the like (moreso than it is now, even), while ensuring it doesn’t cause PvP issues. I’m all for it being full-shadow, but that’s quite unrealistic with Blizzard’s PvP stance on the subject – which is fine, really. I would argue my solution is the next best option.

      RE: You can always move Gargoyle down and put something in its place (such as the new GF, since it would be very important), then tie the talent to it. I did consider having the talent be AotD, but they would have to nerf it quite a bit, which would wreck the spell for Frost, not to mention the cast time/run cost issues. The disease ticks being too static is understandable, but that’s partially why SS procs a disease tick – to make it somewhat less predictable, especially since SD procs mean you can’t always know exactly how many SS you’re going to be able to do.

      SD: It’s intended to be random. We need *some* RNG, and that’s our only major element of it. The issue with the current RE is quite different – it’s double-RNG (chance to proc, then chance at three different runes).

      • Sag says:

        The real problem with linking it to AotD is arena. It’d be awesome, but then no arena player would ever take the talent because you can’t use AotD in arena. I realize that Cat isn’t going to focus on arena, but it seems to me that stacking it with gargoyle would be better.

  15. Vulgor says:

    Damn Consider!
    This post is just beautiful love it all.

    Just love the circular logic of procs you have going in this thing.

    SS > dot ticks > free SS from pet > more dot ticks > even more free SS from pet

  16. Leviatharan says:

    This post is absolutely amazing, bar none.
    The only thing I could disagree with is removing Scourge Strike’s shadow damage.
    The shadow damage was the thing that made SS unique from Obliterate and Blood Strike, and created a whole world of possibilities when it started double-dipping. That, and it took advantage of the various magic buffs we have, ie Impurity and EP. Plus, with the removal of ArP, the Shadow damage of the strike is all the more valuable to us.
    Other than that, I like some of the ideas here. A gargoyle dealing shadow damage with physical strikes solves so many of the horrid UI issues it had before.
    Though considering that Unholy is the disease-focused tree, I can’t see why some of these things don’t affect Frost Fever as well as Blood Plague. Frost Fever is sort of an anomaly since it falls under categories of two specs- it deals Frost damage and is a Frost ability, but it’s also a disease which makes it just as affected by Unholy talents. So why not just let each spec treat the disease differently? BP can still have its job within the tree lowering the garg CD, I just think Scourge Strike could afford to proc a FF tick as well for Unholy, while Frost can keep effects like Chillblains and Brittle Bones that increase FF’s utility for them. 😀

    • Consider says:

      With the removal of Desolation, Bone Shield, Blood Presence, and so on, SS won’t actually double dip into anything in Cataclysm (aside from the BM/Arcane raid buffs), and the whole Maul-like text would keep it benefitting from EP and such (and, in fact, would make *all* of the damage benefit, not just a portion of it).

      As for just BP instead of BP and FF… I was debating with myself both ways. You could balance it with one or the other. The reason I ultimately went with just BP was… I don’t know! It’s a simple matter of numbers whether you make it one or both, and thus it’s relatively unimportant which they go with.

    • Tenacyti says:

      Leviatharan the proposed change for SS wouldn’t actually change the damage of SS from it’s live implementation. As stated many times the current shadow damage done by SS is based on physical damage done, and is therefore also reduced by armor, so the removal of arpen doesn’t remotely affect the value of the shadow portion, and I personally don’t feel it adds any sort of flavor (it did while it could separately crit but that was a dilemma all on its own). In that sense it isn’t ‘real’ shadow damage and actually suffers a double penalty due to partial resists, granted not much but still nonetheless.

      Consider I really like all of the hypotheticals as it really adds synergy to the tree, and would make the play style that much more enjoyable, I hope Blizz will, at any rate, glance over or notice the hypothetical changes as they are extremely well thought out, and as stated have plenty of knobs to turn for tuning.

  17. wesser says:

    Consider you really should apply for a job at blizz, this would be an amazing fix for dk’s.

  18. QXQ says:

    Alright, so as far as I can tell, this is how it plays out, as it was written: http://www.mediafire.com/?2dh9ou4h68gv0ee

    10 theoretical minutes there, and now has columns for ghoul energy and gargoyle CD.

    Okay, now I have two suggestions to iterate a bit. They go together:

    1. Sudden Doom: “Your Ghoul’s Claw has an X% chance and your Gargoyle’s Gargoyle Strike has a Y% chance to make your next Scourge Strike free.”

    This makes the talent a little less passive; you have a little more control over it. You could leave it on auto-Claw if you wanted, but if SD is already up then you may want to hold off on a Claw until you use the SS. Since it’s tied to Ghoul Energy and haste improves Energy regen, the synergies from before are intact.

    2. “Your Death Coil grants your ghoul 15 energy when used on a foe, and 45 energy when used on the ghoul.”

    Death Coil kinda got left out here. This brings DC into the wonderful synergistic ring by letting it cause more Claws, causing more SD procs. So we’d have SS -> Disease ticks -> Minions -> SS, but we’d also have SS -> RP spent on DC -> Ghoul energy -> SS. There’s also some utility use, since you can force energy to immediately throw out a Gnaw or whatever, in case you blew all your energy on Claws and need a Gnaw NOW.

    I’m guessing you were considering a model like this (increasing ghoul energy) and were concerned about the ghoul not being able to spend it, but I don’t see how a ghoul could get more than 40 energy per second (it does have 1.0 GCD right? if not it should).

    • Consider says:

      The lack of emphasis on DC was quite intentional. The focus on DC is simply unhealthy for the tree – it makes it too similar to FS, it makes DW too potent, it takes away from the real focuses of the tree, and so on. It’s our runic dump, yes, but just that – a dump to do when there’s nothing else. Making it too important just causes too many issues, and we have enough on our plate anyways, I would say!

      Claw on auto-cast won’t actually cast every 1 second, unfortunately. It’s annoying.

      • QXQ says:

        I remembered another reason why I’m suggesting tieing SD to Claw.

        I’m assuming a free SS only generates 10 RP, following same rules as Rime. Now, let’s say you need RP to use a cooldown. I think that’s a bit annoying, you’re spamming SS expecting to get 25 RP, but in between thinking about that and actually performing it, you proc’d SS so you only get 10, delaying the cooldown use by a GCD or two.

        Minor issue, maybe avoidable by skill, but it’s something that doesn’t happen with Rime because it’s tied to something active.

        And couldn’t you just suggest they fix Claw auto-casting? 😀

    • kc102 says:

      Using what ever sim you did, could you test our these two trees, or show me where I can do it for myself?
      Unholy: http://www.war-tools.com/t70287.html?b=9t23d3q231301310312202122310
      DW Frost: http://www.war-tools.com/t70287.html?b=9t2303032203311220222010230101p
      2H Frost: http://www.war-tools.com/t70287.html?b=9t23030322c311320202310230201p

      I created them using Consider’s posts as a reference. Assuming his ability changes are in there too.

  19. Caeden says:

    Seriously, you should consider doing game design. No pun intended.

  20. Mysiana says:

    Good god, I think you hit the nail on the head with this idea! I’ve always thought Unholy was boring because of the non-interaction between the DK and ghoul – but this! This idea just ties it all together so elegantly!

    Consider, your ideas are amazing… and even if you won’t post them directly to Blizzard, maybe someone else will (with your permission of course) >.> It would almost be a crime for these ideas to just get buried in a blog.

  21. Rythian says:

    I like mostly everything, but for some reason a resource-free Scourge Strike feels a lot more awkward than a resource-free Death Coil for example. I guess it’s because it’s a rune-based strike rather than a RP-based spell, getting one procced randomly sounds weird. But considering how much it works in terms of synergy, I guess it’s something one gets used to.

  22. Pact of Dawnbringer says:

    Wonderful crafting on your behalf Consider. Everything ties into its self perfectly, now if only Blizzard would take notice of these idea (or this blog as a whole) i would strongly suggest posting this to the blizz site. It would benefit Dk’s as a class if the ‘higher ups’ were to see this.

  23. Caeden says:

    Both the frost and unholy posts have been very eloquent. Bodes well for your capabilities as an instructor. Do you plan to go on and do a similar analysis/wishlisting of Blood? I seem to recall you saying you were quite versed in tanking.

  24. Tenacyti says:

    I actually spent a little time thinking about what could be done with sudden doom to make it more beneficial to 2H unholy vs DW. Lets assume the proposed change for SS took effect where the entire strike would be physical damage multiplied by a percentage for each disease, and sudden doom would proc off of a pet auto attack. Instead of Sudden Doom granting a free SS, it could cause your next SS to be Shadow Damage (i.e. ignore armor but in a flavor fitting unholy).
    I realize this would, to some extent, lessen some of the synergy of the hypothetical changes, because of less overall Scourge Strikes, since Sudden Doom would not grant a resource free strike. But having Sudden Doom cause Scourge Strike to be shadow damage, at least in my opinion, would make the talent less boring and would also prove a nice damage increase when it proced, while not adding any additional globals. Yes it’s still very passive, but unholy is supposed to be more predictable.
    I don’t necessarily think this is a better solution than a resource free SS, but rather driven by personal nostalgia for Scourge Strikes 3.0 implementation.

  25. Rebellion says:

    So now that you are done with your personal overhaul I guess I can throw my 2 cents in as well, not that they are worth much anyway. It’s early in the moring so I apologize for any substential flaws in my writing.

    There are defineatly some things which I like, but quite a few things I don’t agree with and I don’t think blizzard intended them to be used that way either. For example the way you use – in fact in beta every one uses – outbreak to apply diseases instead of using IT and PS. Why even bother having two diseases if you already apply them simultaneously? The ability was intended to give us some needed burst should the need arise because the new rune system was supposed to cut the amount of things we do in half. But lets face it, that was the goal that brought this chaotic situation upon us in the first place and yet failed to actually change anything and even left us with even less room for new abilities than before. If using an ability benefitted the raid or me in any way I used it , no matter the cost or the way it fits into my rotation. The whole point becomes mood when you realize that they didn’t even add such an ability, because neither outreak nor DSim and defineatly not necrotic strike serve this purpose.
    Anyway back to outbreak: I guess blizzard is aware of the sitation as well, as they implemented a supposedly situational ability which due to how it works is now – at least for unholy – the sole means to apply diseases.
    I think they will probably either nerf outbreak (longer CD / less disease dmg / only appliable under certain circumstances) or just redo it compleatly maybe to function like you suggested or in a completly diffrent way. The way it is now hardly makes sense as a whole, though it is not alone.

    The other thing I don’t quite agree on is the iteration of your RE-system. While I see how it basicly is a nice thing, using deathcoil for frost just doesn’t fit for me tbh. Though in this case its not a problem with the mechanics I have, but more so a problem with the flavor. At least they have to paint the deathcoil blue ;).
    For blood tanks I can see it working nice as it is exactly what they need right now, thanks to the holes in their resource system blood tanks suffer from today (the irony).
    When it comes to unholy though, I’m not sure I like the idea of reducing the gargoyle cd. As we all probably know by now the gargoyle is used best when under the influce of as much proccs and boosts as possible. Either this needs to be adressed so its not longer a snapshot of our current stats or the tuning for the ability needs to be in our favor. With a 3 minute CD we can use it twice in a 5 minute fight. When you reduce its cooldonw you need a total of about 150 (first time used after 10 second ramp up time, 2 minites to actually use it a third time and ~20 seconds duration atop of my head) “y” proccs (asuming y=1) over the course of 5 minutes to make it actually worthwhile, else all it does is nothing really. The question is then: What to balance it around ? 5 minute fights? 7? 10 ? 15 or theoretical endless fights ?

    I still miss a synergy that makes us profit from the ghoul and not vice versa. That thing is supposed to aid us not we him. I always thought I would be kinda funny if the ghoul had an ability that stacked a debuff on the target which in retrun strenghens us in some way. But I doub I will get to see this, so what ever. I see where you are going with your Sudden Doom design, but wouldn’t another free proc that actually needs to be activated increase the amount of GCDs we use once again ? I see how it would help about the DW infestation that destroys every 2h playstyle of all classes that can dual wield, but at what price ? Not to mention that I still think Frost is much closer to 2H and unholy much closer to DW in terms of flavor.

    But there are alot of things I do agree on. Especially when it comes to cooldowns costing RP instead of actual runes. I just hate it when my runes desynchonize and in the next rotation I have to wait ages for the other to come back on a diffrent time for my 2-rune ability, which is largly a problem of frost though.

    I also think your SS goes into the right direction. Well the shadow part is nice and all, but it became nothing more than a shallow flavor that does nothing but trick us into thinking we do actually use shadow dmg. Either let it go your way or go back to 100% shadow dmg. As for the scaling issue it had previously, that is gone by now. Arp is lost in the twisting nether while armor ignoring shadow dmg does not actually imply any problems for me in pvp tbh. First of all with everyone and their grandmother having 70k+ hp I doubt SS would severly imbalance anything at all and second the only classes that truly suffer from it are warrior and paladins. Both of them beeing supperior in arena since the dawn of pvp, which would hardly hurt anyone as well, escpecially if you consider rogues essentially have a quite simular ability. The biggest problems I see with the original SS are fights like lady Deathwhisper, where magic dmg is absorbed and thus causing catastrophic failure of our dmg, as we are severly crippled in these scenarions already. Oh my, I got distracted again.

    Anyway the last thing I have to say is that presences surely need a rework but I’m not sure this is the right way. By making them only usefull to one tree it kind of defeats the purpose of having multiple presences at all. You might as well go with two, one for tanking and one shared for dmg but defined by the respective tree. Or just make a buff like paladins have for tanking and scrap the whole presence design.
    I wish they would bring back the 1sec GCD for Unholy (I loved that fast paced playstyle), as that would surely help their playstyle, though it might be a over the top balance wise.

    • Rebellion says:

      Oh because I just saw your twitter post on the side: I use a merc stealth and wouldn’t want any other board. the way the buttons are aligned are a blessing, especially if you compare it to a normal keyboard or the one of my laptop I use for emergencies. I usually could go on for hours w/o having a cramp in my hand, like most other classes (some dks :P) tend to complain after a little raiding session.

      The one thing that annoyed me with the board though is that the space bar broke quite early for me and it now only holds in place because i fixed it with duct tape. And back when I first got it they software gave me quite the headache when trying to run it on a 64 bit os – thought that might be fixed by now.

  26. Raxxnamus says:

    I like the suggestions, they are one way of dealing with the current issues for sure. If we are possibly going to be more dependant on AotD I would like a way to remove their (situationaly stop it from Auto casting) taunt ability, which really can cause more problems than anything else in 5 mans and PVE fights with adds that aren’t Boss level.

    My preferred solution to RE would be to give DC a 100% chance to proc a “necrotic point” when you scourge strike your necrotic points (max 3) will be consumed causing SS to hit 10/20/30% increased damage for 10 (or so) seconds. This would require careful planning to maximise as typically we can only use DC twice for a full rune bar – unless…. Sudden doom free DC also procs and fires automatically?

    Outbreak useable every 1 minute applies BP/FF/EP to the target and EP to all targets within x yards (matching jinx?) every useful for switching targets but non mandatory in single targets with good use of FeS. Or preferred, your ghoul applies EP to its target and all targets within X yards with claw/gnaw?

    You are spot on about changing what imp UH presence does, because as soon as we become GCD capped it will become almost mandatory to swith to frost presence to hit harder instead. I am not sure tier 1/2 is a good idea tho as it would result in Frost/Blood trees being able to get this talent while we have no access to imp frost or blood presence.

    Sudden doom, hmm, well it would free up a few GCD’s if it went back to the old blood design, but I can see where you are going with that, just think the old blood design was better.

    SS 100% physical yes, no reason not to now Arp has been removed. Not sure it needs to make blood plague tick, why not just increase its damage by the equivalent of a blood plague tick? Might be you are over complicating in your quest for synergy here? I see no reason tho really why this cannot be our main 2 rune attack and FeS only cost a frost rune and do lower damage, this would bring back SS being our signature move, not FeS which sits in the Frost tree of spells.

    Ghoul Frenzy, yes this should affect all pets if it costs a rune, it would have a great affect on our burst when we pop gargoyle and aotd and allow us to be far more situational about how we use it.

    Now taking all of that into account, assuming we are in UH presence, extra haste, 3 necrotic points, we SHOULD be able to get off more scourge strikes in the 10 second proc time (activated when we first use SS with NP’s available) making UH presence a whole lot more attractive!

    • Aku says:

      necrotic points look like a holy power rip-off from paladins…

      wouldn’t it be simpler if DC would stack a short debuff on the target which increases SS dmg by x% and stacks up to 3 times?

  27. Anonymous says:

    While I really like your suggested unholy changes I would like to highlight a problem I see with the rotation and encounter design currently available in WoW.

    There is a lot of talk about the GCD caped problem and how to solve it, to my view the problem is not really a problem but a symptom of the real problem, to try and fix the GCD problem by making new rotations is like curing diseases with pain killers you may feel a bit better but you are just as sick as before.

    The real problem is in the encounter design and the DPS up time we have on the boss, even in a heavy movement fight the up time is very close to 100% forcing us to use every ability as soon as we can in the most effective manner = a rotation.

    Games needs to be fun and exiting a rotation can be fun for some i guess, but is the opposite of exiting for sure, even elements like RE, procs don’t make a rotation exiting they just make it messy.

    DK’s have some really nice abilities the problem is they get very little focus as we need to spam abilities constantly. Dark Simulacrum sounds like a very cool ability but if all it will do at the end is be a CD I use every time it’s ready to give me a small DPS boost than it really missed it call.

    Even the basic IT/PS can be fun if it would get used less frantically and with a more clear intent.

    In general I think the boss up time should be reduced drastically to something like 50% or even less, survivability should be a far more important aspect of a boss fight, with short windows for us to do our DPS on the boss in, every ability should count and good players will shine by knowing what to use when, instead of a rotation we will have combinations that we use for the times we get to DPS the boss.

    We will do DPS for say 5-10 sec and than spend the next 5-10 sec surviving and getting in to the right position for our next DPS window, a simple combo like IT/PS/SS/DC takes a new meaning as it’s no longer just a simple rotation but the peak of a move where you survived falling meteors, cleaves and void zones to get to the boss and hit him and now you need to get back to safety and plan your next move…

    Dark Simulacrum and other more exotic abilities will get far more focus as you could plan a full move around this abilities, and ofc being GCD’s caped will no longer be a bad thing but a required one.

    I know this is way out of the focus of this blog and post but I feel it needs to be said.

  28. Karesh says:

    Really enjoyed this write up. Will this see the beta boards? and out of curiosity what are the DK Beta boards like do we have good representation?

    • rebellion says:

      At the moment there is one huge thread that covers the dk class, as there are no class forums. They are open to everyone, so you can check them out yourself (w/o posting ofc). To be honest I find them a bit lacking offical response. I know alot of blue posts are not everything. But alot of very valid concerns where voiced already and so far the replys are kind of scarce(sic?),
      While some classes get alot of attention, it almost seems like they have not yet thought about the dk class, as they haven’t even mentioned some of the basics where they want to go with their design.
      But what am I talking about, look for yourself: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?sid=2000&forumId=27265656

  29. Anaroth says:

    I’m a little bit late to the party, as I was too busy to reply to this during the weekend.

    In some ways unholy actually kind of has a decent single target rotation as it is, and you recognised this.
    The problems actually come when you’re trying to fit in the talents and make things conform to the description of the tree. I also kind of worry about it being a little bit too dependent on scourge strike. if 4 out of 5 base strikes in your rotation are scourge strikes, then that’s a little bit weird. To that end I like that the current runic empowerment mixes things up a bit (although it does push the number of potential SS up a bit) While it’s certainly true that unholy isn’t designed to be as proc based as frost, I think it’s pretty clear that in cataclysm they want us to have more varied priorities. (This applies to all classes).

    I don’t really think you need to change the rune cost of your potential outbreak, If there is only minimal different between using a death rune for a SS and for something else, then it gives you the flexibility to adjust in your rotation to having to use runes for something else. Frankly that’s what’s missing in the current live cycles. Although I did just have a quick thought on the matter (which would make the last remark moot), what if we merged Festering Strike and Outbreak, have it extend and do more damage if the diseases are already up, otherwise apply a new disease.

    As it stands blood has a nice dynamic play style around what is best to use death runes for. By comparison unholy will almost always use them for scourge strike. You never got back to me on the exact damage of festering strike. I think it’s damage for unholy needs to be in the ballpark of say a blood strike and a scourge strike, then it becomes a little bit more likely that festering strike would be an option. On live the unholy playstyle depends a little bit more on keeping up certain buffs/debuffs than frost does. In some ways I’d kind of like to see that in cataclysm (for single target at least) One thing I thought off, would be to leverage necrotic strike, make say the chance for SS to proc diseases be dependent on a debuff put up by necrotic strike.

    I too like the ghoul proccing something, but in line of what I said before maybe not SS. I kind of liked my synergy proc where your ghoul and you could both proc energy/RP for the other. That way a DW proc is marginalised as just a dps boost for your pet. Yes it’s a lot like the frost 2H talent, but I don’t think RP generation should be the difference between 2H and DW frost.

    To make things worthwhile unholy needs a decent unholy presence, which you’ve gone and done. I don’t really like the idea of giving frost presence +frost damage, and unholy +shadow but it works, and is easy to balance, unlike the current +damage vs +melee haste which is a nightmare. I gave my unholy presence +spell haste because AFAIK that’ll give you more disease ticks and shave some of the spell GCDs, to balance that I gave Frost Presence +attack speed (absorbing icy talons), but there’s a whole lot of different things you could play with without majorly affecting the rotations of the two specs.

    One of the things that I think is important to get right is in order to balance the mastery we can’t do too much more ae disease damage than single target disease damage. Your design at least has several knobs that can be adjusted to sort that out.

    You didn’t really talk about ae, and to me that’s a big issue with the way they’ve gone and set things up. With the 50% penalty on diseases spread by pestilence, and no real ae use for F and U runes beyond DnD, it looks like our ae rotation will look like tab targetting, putting up our diseases, and using bloodboil, with an initial pestilence to spread the diseases and an occaisional DnD. That really isn’t a play style that appeals to me.


    • Aku says:

      just a quick note about AoE because you brought it up: I really don’t like the DMG penalty by pestilence! I understand the reason behind it (nerfing all AoE DMG) but this implementation feels clunky.

      If disease AoE DMG is too high, then I would rather nerf all diseases baseline (and scrap the pestilence penalty). Give Unholy a single target buff (applied via DC or SS) to increase disease DMG again.

      AoE DMG abilities are already tree-specific and tuned separately: BB for Blood, HB for Frost and DnD for Unholy. With the latest change to Consecration (and DnD too), Blizz could move Morbidity higher in the talent tree making it unaccessible for Blood but somehow improve its AoE usability for Unholy.

      • Anaroth says:

        Yeah. That’s pretty much my position, remove the pestilence penalty, and add in a single target buff.
        My choice would be to add it to something like festering strike, because you can’t really spam that.
        Refining the ideas for scourge strike, one option woudbe be you could make it actually do the magical damage part as disease damage.

  30. Suffer says:

    I can’t really get over Runic Empowerment. Right now it’s bad, and it throws off everything. I know what it’s supposed to do, and then there’s what it actually does. It’s supposed to give you free resources every now and then so you can use more attacks in a certain period of time. What it’s actually doing is making me sit on my attacks longer it seems waiting for the right runes to pop.

    If Runic Empowerment had to stay, i’d rather just let it be like, a buff that procs off our Rune Ability crits, and it would allow your next rune attack to generate twice as much runic power, and allow that attack to cost no runes. So it would be like Rime. Then you can ditch the current version of rime with something interesting. This runic empowerment i can utilize fully. You can make Runes Genereate as slowly as they do now too with this Runic Empowerment.

  31. Duurj says:

    Although it was only a brief mention, I really dig the combining of IT with CoI and PS with NS. I love the way every part of Unholy feeds into the other parts in your hypothetical changes. Though I’m not really sure I, or Blizzard, would go for the pure physical SS although I would like to see it only show up as one number again.

    I would personally like to see Unholy Blight become a bigger deal for the tree. I really think all shadow damage you deal (diseases, death coil, SS, gargoyle, etc) should feed into it. Hell you could even use that “force a blood plague tick” idea here instead. Whenever you SS, you increase the current damage of your Unholy Blight by X% (x would probably have to be high).

  32. Duurj says:

    Although it was only a brief mention, I really dig the combining of IT with CoI and PS with NS. I love the way every part of Unholy feeds into the other parts in your hypothetical changes. Though I’m not really sure I, or Blizzard, would go for the pure physical SS although I would like to see it only show up as one number again.

    I would personally like to see Unholy Blight become a bigger deal for the tree. I really think all shadow damage you deal (diseases, death coil, SS, gargoyle, etc) should feed into it like our own version of Ignite. Hell you could even use that “force a blood plague tick” idea here instead. Whenever you SS, you increase the current damage of your Unholy Blight by X% (x would probably have to be high).

  33. Enthusiast says:

    i saw your twitter msg about how you bought a new system but didnt get case, i dont do twitter and couldnt figure out where else to post this but, Whad ya get! im all excited i got myself a new toy too, what did you get?
    i just finally hit the order on my cart on sunday for a Rampage 3 Extreme, i7 930, 3x2g 1866 Dominators, GTX480 Sli, Crucial SSD, Obsidian 800D Case, gona liquid cool that baby when i can figure out what parts i really wanna go with….im thinkin all EK cpu/gpu/chipset blocks, Swiftek pump/res, any radiators really…

    shrug im all excited for mine, so im sure you are havin fun with yours if you got your case yet….or even before, id build it outside the case hah anyways prob hehe….

    welp, ttyl,,hope you like your new toy!
    ….Fellow Enthusiast

    • Consider says:

      Uh, well, you see… this is actually the first time I’m building a computer – I’ve never even done so much as install new ram before – so “enthusiast” probably isn’t the right term to describe me! I figure how hard can it be for a reasonably intelligent guy like myself! When I make a fool of myself tomorrow (assuming the stupid case finally decides to show, which it should) I’ll probably second guess my decision, but oh well. I’m sure I’ll enjoy myself. I could even take pictures of the finished product so you can have a good laugh at my expense!

      My new system isn’t near as good as yours, but then yours seems rather beastly. I just don’t need something so strong, not to mention budget limitations. I ended up going with phenom II x4 955 and a 5850, iirc. It’s a huge leap up from my current system (2.26 c2d w/ a 3650, so really anything would be a large jump)!

      • Sag says:

        I hope it went well. My M-I-L built computers for both my wife and I. Honestly it’s a matter of lining numbers up. Gotta make sure everything is going to operate at the same frequency (I believe) then plug in the matching parts. If you have a place near you like Frye’s they are pretty awesome for buying supplies from, and they’ll make sure the parts will work together. Plus their return policy is awesome. So let us know how it went. Take a picture or something.

  34. Leodar says:

    Unholy Presence:
    The attack power bonus received by your pets and disease damage is increased by 10%, and movement speed by 15%.

    Improved Unholy Presence:
    THe damage caused by Scourge Strike now has a 10/20% chance to be shadow damage, which can be increased by any effect that increases shadow damage. In addition, you retain 8/15% on run speed increase when in blood or frost presence.

    You were interested in ideas. I have no idea if the numbers work, but this was my first unpolished thought.

    • Leodar says:

      Incidentally, these were the ideas I had in the context of your changes, NOT what is currently on beta or live.

  35. Twy says:

    Fucking ideas, plz let see them to blizz

  36. Alrenous says:

    I’d certainly like to see DC hit harder, because I love the idea of a huge bolt of death being thrown by a dude in plate. But, then it would have to hit less often, which is exactly what your Sudden Doom change is getting at.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: