Cata BiS – Frost DW

See title, insert standard disclaimer (could change before going live), and all that jazz. Remember you can view example stat weights here or see Unholy’s BiS lists here.

I’ll have Frost 2H up tomorrow evening, most likely, after which point I’ll get to discussing where each spec stands at level 85. Not that there’s much to discuss there, unfortunately; Unholy and Frost DW are near equal, ± about 3% relative to one another, pending specific encounter and personal gear. Frost 2H is about 10% behind either of those two, which is an insurmountable gap except in the most unusual of circumstances.

Getting on with it:

[Pre-Heroic]


A few notes:

  • I didn’t include any profession specific BoP epics. I never do, for obviously reasons; you can’t have every profession!
    • Even though everyone can use archaeology and thus the Scimitar of the Sirocco, due to the RNG nature of obtaining the item, I believed it best not to include it. Obviously if you get lucky enough to stumble upon it, it’s BiS.
  • I didn’t include most profession BoE epics. They all require Chaos Orbs to craft; Chaos Orbs being the Cataclysm version of Frozen Orbs. Considering Chaos Orbs are only available from heroics and they happen to be BoP, even though you can pay someone else what is sure to be a ton of gold initially to craft using them, it doesn’t seem appropriate to include them in a pre-heroic list, as someone still has to be doing the heroics.
    • Darkmoon Card: Hurricane is the exception to this rule, as it doesn’t require orbs, interestingly enough.
  • I did include Justice Point loot, as one can see. Although they’re mainly earned via heroics, you do get them from normal dungeon dailies, not to mention everyone should have 4k points stockpiled from level 80.
  • No, the relic is not a mistake. There’s very, very few options there.
  • Conquest (i.e, Arena) gear was excluded here, for what I think are obvious reasons.

[Pre-Raid]

Only one thing to say here: I didn’t include Valor Point rewards. Considering you start at 0 (unlike with Justice Points in the pre-Heroic setup) and can only get 75 a day at most, without raiding, it would take you three weeks straight to get your first item. Seemed silly to include them, although of course any strength items available from them would be BiS here.

[Pre-Hardmode]

Aside from the fact that I couldn’t find the specific boss half of the loot comes from, nothing to note. The str/mastery gem located in the relic can replace any red gem; you simply need to have a second orange to active the meta, and there’s no available socket bonuses to pick up.

[No Restrictions]

Aside from the fact that I couldn’t find the specific boss half of the loot comes from, nothing to note.

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14 Responses to Cata BiS – Frost DW

  1. the DK says:

    Great job, as always Consider

  2. Valtiel says:

    I know you’re gonna get to the “where speccs stand” comparison in a future post, but Frost 2H lagging so much behind happens when playing the lvl 80 haste-capped UP version or getting to lvl 85 changes something? I’ve seen you state that at 85 Str is gonna overtake Haste, and I was wondering if that also meant going back to Frost Presence.

    I honestly can’t see them fixing Frost 2H while keeping MotFW in its current form. Freeing the GCDs needed to actually use the talent comes at a basic dps loss (as UP doesn’t offer the same amount of benefits FP does for Frost in base terms, so you’re hardly getting a direct benefit, and the extra GCDs you free are tecnically meant to be used with the increased rune regen powered abilities, so you’re still likely GCD starved).

    If Blizzard was to free the GCDs in terms of class design, they’d have to redesign the specc, and given how stable Frost DW and UH look right now, I doubt they’d risk it. Honestly from my perspective MotFW has a gigantic target stamped on it. I wonder why they don’t simply make it a “Windfury” style talent that bridges the white damage gap between 2H and DW. By having it become a white damage procc (or even stable increase only applied to white damage) you’d have exactly the same scaling of Frost DW and you could balance the specc as a whole instead of chasing windmills like this.

    • Haardrada says:

      Maybe turn MotFW into a Frozen Blows thing? 2-handed Frost Strikes have a chance to cause your next 1/2/3 melee hits to deal Frost damage instead of Physical damage. Yes, it’d be yet another proc-based ability, and yes, it’d probably be overpowered in arenas (which, as I recall, is one of the main reasons why the original 2H Frost got nerfed), but it might free up enough GCDs to make running in FP viable again.

  3. Anonymous says:

    This one had rather sparse comments… I guess not much to comment on since everything is pretty straightforward.

  4. Dascylus says:

    I’m curious as to why Impatience of Youth is on the pre-raid BiS list… sure, it has mastery, but the fact that it’s a Use trinket with a 2 min cooldown and such a horrid amount of strength compared to trinkets that drop in heroics is beyond me.

    Of course, I’m unsure of the proc rate and ICD of H Heart of Solace right now, but I’m sure if it sticks to the same 45-60 sec ICD model of Wrath, the strength proc of the trinket would surely compensate for the lack of mastery (that of which some of the haste can be reforged to)

    To be honest… you think an Use trinket of ilvl 359 would have the same amount of strength as a raid trinket, but right now it is showing 1605 strength on Wowhead, compared to the 1926 str procs of similar ilvl trinkets.

    Not sure if the tooltip is wrong, but right now I think the 1710 str proc of H HoS would pull ahead even with the awful haste secondary stat.

    • Consider says:

      Most trinkets in Cataclysm have a 1/6th (17%) uptime, as opposed to the current norm of 1/3rd (33%). It’s an interesting change, and one I meant to discuss at some point or another.

      But, yeah, that’s why. The use trinkets are no better/worse then the proc trinkets. Just focus on the stats themselves.

      Thus Impatience of Youth is a very nice (and very accessible) trinket as such.

      • Dascylus says:

        True, it’s the only item from Baradin’s Wardens we have to purchase… thus making all Tol Barad Commendations afterwards useful towards whatever the heck you want (yeah, I’m looking at you Spectral Steed) lol

        Anyway, thanks for the clarification, definitely going to pick up that trinket then… though don’t you think they need to buff up the strength a little? The stat weights just don’t seem to match up with other trinkets of that ilvl. Though I am guessing H Heart of Solace would take its place for the 2h Frost list because haste > mastery?

  5. Dascylus says:

    Seeing as how they just updated the BoP relics from Inscription to now be BoE, are you planning to change the pre-heroic and pre-raid relic slots to Notched Jawbone? From what I see, it will now be superior to the Conch of Thundering Waves now because it already has hit and mastery on it.

    • Consider says:

      All it would change is how you handle reforging an item or two; you wouldn’t actually change items in any other slots. I’ll of course have it up to date Tuesday when the EJ guides go 100% to 85.

  6. Acrophobia says:

    Sorry if this was asked somewhere else already but when we are looking at the Frost and Unholy DW BiS can we assume that the weapons listed in Frost DW are the same for Unholy?

    If there is an Unholy DW BiS somewhere I am missing it.

    Thank you.

  7. Apo says:

    Don’t see anyone else asking, but H Skin of Stone is not available to players. Any other options? I’m using H Burned Gatherings. Any alternatives?

  8. Apo says:

    I retract my previous posts, I’m starting to realize there are many issues with the Pre-Raid BiS list. 2 BoEs aren’t available to players and unless they changed the Nova Band since this post, it already has Hit on it, and therefore can’t be reforged to Hit.

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